Meta’s Benji Shomair on Making the Moment Shoppable

Benji Shomair:

I think what this all nets out to be is that shopping is evolving in some ways from a place where businesses were creating destinations to a much more sort of always on journey, where people are making discoveries and purchases in places quite frankly we would've never have expected before.

Rob Goodman:

Hi everyone. And welcome to Now What?, the podcast from Wix about how technology is changing…everything. I'm your host, Rob Goodman, and in this series, we're talking all about evolution in business, design, development and beyond. In this new season of the show, we're diving into customer experience. As the world has rapidly transformed customers' expectations, behavior and needs have adapted with it. Paired with the emergence of new forms of social media, digital currency, the metaverse and so much more, navigating what this means for you and your organization can be a lot.

Rob Goodman:

So we're bringing you fresh interviews and new insights from leaders that are reshaping business today, to better prepare you for what's ahead. On today's episode, we have Benji Shomair, Vice President for the commerce business at Meta. Meta's family of apps include Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger. Benji previously built and led business operations for Facebook's global sales organization and partner channels, and subsequently led Meta's partnership development with the world's largest marketers.

Rob Goodman:

He began his career advising startups, large corporations and private equity firms on a host of strategic and operational issues at Bain & Company. Benji and I discussed the origin story of commerce at Meta, formerly known as Facebook, the future of social selling and eCommerce, the value of content as the new front door to your store, macro trends in customer behavior and why no matter the platform, AR, VR, Metaverse or your favorite social app, it's all about making the moment shoppable. You're in for a great conversation filled with practical advice, insights and a deeper look at how to meet your customer needs today. All in our conversation with Benji Shomair. Let's get started. Benji, welcome to the Now What? podcast. So great to have you here.

Benji Shomair:

Thanks, Rob. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Rob Goodman:

Awesome. Let's get started. I want to hear about your role at Meta. Can you describe it for listeners?

Benji Shomair:

I lead what we call the commerce experiences team here at Meta. And what the teams I support do is they really focus on building delightful shopping experiences, both for businesses and consumers, throughout that customer journey. I've been at Facebook for a while, longer than I expected. I've been there for almost 11 years now. And over that time, I've had the opportunity to work on a lot of different parts of the business. I started helping build and scale the ads business, then folks in the messaging business.

Benji Shomair:

And during that time, I got to see firsthand all of the native commerce that's taking place sort of latently on our platforms. People have more opportunities than ever to discover products, just the right time, just the right place. And really businesses are looking to navigate these new channels and grow their businesses. And so fast forward to 2020, I jumped at the opportunity to take a leadership position in our commerce business group, where our mission is to help connect people and businesses through commerce.

Rob Goodman:

And the origin story of commerce at Meta is really interesting. It wasn't like some massive vision that the overlords, the executives kind of had in place from day one, but it was more so that people on Facebook and Instagram, they were using it to sell and you all kind of followed their lead to build out the platform. Do I have that right? Tell me more about the origin story.

Benji Shomair:

Yeah, exactly. Something a lot of folks don't know. I mean, commerce has really been core to Meta's business really from the start. I mean, of course we have an ads business, drives billions of transactions every year. But this element that you're describing, the organic and the latent behaviors is something, it's a little bit less well understood, which is, and to be honest, it's funny, it's actually, I describe it as the hallmark of many of Meta's most successful products.

Benji Shomair:

People think that Meta has this product strategy team or all these great strategic thinkers that dream up what we're going to build and we go build it. And we have a great product strategy team and they're awesome and very, very talented and good friends of mine. But I actually think the hallmark of many of Facebook's most successful, most powerful products are really: we would just follow our customers.

Benji Shomair:

And you could think about all the way back to the origins of Facebook's newsfeed, where the original Facebook when Mark was in his dorm room was really just profiles. And people would go to their profiles and they would add classes they're in or they would change their photos. And they were looking at the behavior of people on that original instance of Facebook. And so people sort of keep going back to their profiles, I couldn't understand why. And because people were looking for changes, someone changed their photos, some did update their class information. People wanted to know this information. So they created newsfeed really to service that need.

Benji Shomair:

And actually commerce has many of those similar elements where it's not like we sat in some ivory tower and said, "Hey, you know what would be really great is if we had a commerce business. It would be really powerful to support us from an economic perspective if we had a commerce business.” It was much more organic than that, where two groups, as an example, we built this group's product many, many years ago, where people were connecting, sharing their experiences and all sorts of other things.

Benji Shomair:

And when we started to look at how people were using the product, the number two or number three most common use case for this product were people buying and selling things from each other. This wasn't what the product was designed for. Quite frankly, it wasn't the most elegant experience. You think about, in commerce, if you want to have a good commerce experience, you want to have search, you want to be able to visualize things. You want additional details on those products. None of those things existed, but people wanted to do this so badly. They took our product and basically hacked it and did what they had to…“buy-sell” groups is what they called it.

Benji Shomair:

And this was really one example of these origins of commerce because those “buy-sell” groups were where Facebook Marketplace came from. It was really trying to create a better experience for people already on our platform. Another great example was on Instagram, when Instagram first launched, you had really amazing participation from brands, from merchants of different kinds, and they were interacting with consumers, but then if you looked at the comments as an example, if you looked at the comments on their posts of how people were interacting and what they were interacting about, it was about commerce. There would be a post about a product of some sort, shirt or hat or you name it.

Benji Shomair:

And you look in the comments and you're like, "Hey, is this available? What size is it? What color is it?" People wanted to do commerce on the platform. And we're basically using a set of tools that we hadn't designed for this to sort of hack their way into it. And that was really the origins of Instagram shopping. And so our origin story for commerce in Meta is really bottoms up – that this is what consumers were already doing on our platform and how can we make that easier? How can we make that better? How can we improve that experience?

Rob Goodman:

And I wanted to ask you, one of the things I love about being here at Wix is that everything that I do, everything that we do here goes back to supporting creative people, supporting people who are running their businesses so they can build their dreams online. And it gets me so excited every day. And I'm curious, from where you sit and your work, what puts fuel in your tank every day to get you up and charge through those long days and nights and maybe weekends that you're working?

Benji Shomair:

What gets me up in the morning is the knowledge that people want to do this and that it's not easy enough today, that on one side you have consumers who see these products on Instagram that want to sort buy, sell and trade with other people on things like Marketplace that are on platforms like WhatsApp and are interacting with their local store or local vendor. And they want to do it. And it's much harder than it needs to be. And on the other side, you have businesses, there are businesses that are large, there are businesses that are small. You have chaiwalas in India. You have burger stands in favelas in Brazil, you have coffee shops in South Africa. These are all actually real examples that I'm referencing that, desperately, they have built their own business, want to grow it, want to connect with customers and are using Meta's platforms to connect with those customers, but it's harder than it should be.

Benji Shomair:

And what gets me up in the morning every day is that opportunity where you have sort of both sides wanting to connect in those better ways and wanting to connect more deeply, engaging and creating sort of huge benefits on both sides in terms of helping small businesses grow in economic growth to helping people get the things that they need. And so it's a real privilege to get to work on a platform that touches so many people's lives and can help sort of improve them in ways like that.

Rob Goodman:

One of the things that we've talked about a little bit is the idea of pre-selling and that it's not just about the purchase experience, it's not about follow up and post purchase, but for sellers and eCommerce organizations, it's about pre-selling, talk to me a little bit about the value of pre-selling and how to do it right.

Benji Shomair:

I mean, it's important for any size brand. You think about their content, their advertising strategies before they sort of get off a campaign before they launch something. We have at Meta sort of suite of advertising tools they can use to test some of those messages, test their creative to see what works best with their customers. But an expression that I like to use around pre-selling is that increasingly content is really the front door to your store.

Benji Shomair:

If you think about the old days, think about when I was growing up, there would be an ad in a magazine and it'd be like, oh wow, that's a really cool product. And I'd be like, "Where do you buy this?" Which was actually not a straightforward question and answer. And then you'd go figure out what store you could buy this at. And then had to ask my mom or dad or someone else to take me to that store assuming I was under 16. But then I have to go to that store to then figure out where in the store is this product, what shelf is it on? Go navigate it, go look at it. Now I've seen the product. Do I really want to buy it? Maybe I'm not ready to purchase today. Maybe I put it back on the shelf. I'm going to ask my friends if they think it's cool, come back another day and buy.

Benji Shomair:

And eventually take it off the shelf. I walk it over to the POS and I purchase it. And that's what it was like for a very, very long time. But think about today, you're sitting on your phone, you're waiting for the bus. You open up Instagram, you see a post. Oh, cool, it's from, you name the retailer, you name the brand. That's a beautiful shirt, I click on it. There's a little tag. It tells me the price. I click on that. It takes me directly to the product detail page and I can purchase it right there.

Benji Shomair:

The path to purchase has changed so dramatically, both in recent memory and then definitely if you think further back to when I was growing up. And it really changes the way this pre-selling experience works, because actually you can go from what was historically pre-selling directly to the point of purchase and conversion in an instant. And it really creates these amazing opportunities for businesses.

Benji Shomair:

One example we can talk about is an organization called Madhappy. Now, Madhappy, they're a streetwear company and they aim to promote optimism and mental health. That's what the organization's doing. It's a really, really cool brand. They use some Meta products to really capitalize on this sort of evolution of pre-selling really to unlock the power of that content and what they utilize is really creators, community and commerce to help drive their business. To set a bit of context, this past holiday season, 2021, Madhappy launched their outdoor collections, a suite of hoodies, buffer jackets, snowboards, really centered around the positive effects that spending time in the outdoors and nature have on your mental health, sort of very in line with sort of the folks, the brand and the impact you're trying to have in the world.

Benji Shomair:

To launch the collection, what Madhappy did is they used Meta's drop product on Instagram. This is really to build hype and awareness through their community that this product was coming. This is sort of a limited release of the product on a fixed date, where you tell people ahead of time that it's available, they'll come purchase it when it drops. Fans of the brand are able to sign up ahead of time. So they'd be notified if they're interested when the drop happens and it creates this sort of great excitement and hype around the product.

Benji Shomair:

Now what Madhappy also did that was super interesting is they focused on amplifying that message using creators. So they hosted a weekend trip sort of in the wilderness, sort of a curated set of 50 creators that were really aligned with their brand and their message. These are folks who had audiences that their products and their vision and mission would really resonate with.

Benji Shomair:

And over that weekend, they sort of, in addition to having a suite of programs and ways to engage with them, they sort of exposed them to the suite of products that were going to be dropping on a specific date on Instagram. And they also sort of very tactically gave those creators access to the product collection and sort of copy and documentation. They actually had no obligation to post, no obligation to distribute. But because they had such a sort of manicured and curated group of creators where it sort of resonate so deeply with them, it just happened naturally and organically that these creators sort of shared the great experience they had in that weekend, shared their excitement of these products that were coming and really sort of brought in sort of new adjacent audiences to the Madhappy products and also reinforced the Madhappy sort of vision and mission with a lot of sort of audiences that it resonated with, to pretty amazing results.

Benji Shomair:

I mean, by tapping into their community of friends and relevant creators to amplify that sort of pre-selling experience. Madhappy had some of its best first day sales figures ever this holiday season. Sort of all utilizing these new suites of tools for how you can sort of shorten that path to purchase and really capitalize on how pre-selling has changed.

Rob Goodman:

So we're leading into this, but from your perspective on the industry, I'm really curious about where you see the future of social selling going, and the future of eCommerce. I know you can't spill any future product secrets with us, but as you said, you're kind of following what customers are telling you. What are you seeing out there and what do you think is coming next?

Benji Shomair:

To begin, I mean in many ways, social commerce is already a reality. Some forecasts are putting it at a trillion dollar opportunity in 2025. But I think what we see on our platforms, I think many people see it in their lives. I think social commerce is here. There are two trends that are behind this. I mean, the first is this idea of the customer journey is changing, sort of how and where people want to shop.

Benji Shomair:

And the second is this other concept I alluded to of content and commerce are converging. The way I sort of frame it is the idea of content is increasing the front door to your store. Now, we've seen big shifts in shopping behavior before. We saw the move from in-store to online. Then we saw online to mobile. Now we're seeing evolution into social. What's really changing this most recent shift is where people are spending their time, many cases in social apps, and how that's changing the path to purchase. The marketing funnel, that traditional marketing funnel is in many ways collapsing, creating so many sorts of new opportunities for brands and people to connect.

Benji Shomair:

On the content side, of course, that also means that people have more opportunities than before to discover those products and to purchase them sort of more instantly than ever before. I think what this all nets out to be is that shopping is evolving in some ways from a place where businesses were creating destinations. You were really creating these shopping destinations to a much more sort of always-on journey where people are making discoveries and purchases in places like, quite frankly, we would've never expected it before.

Rob Goodman:

And speaking of the future, obviously what was Facebook is now Meta and includes Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp. And I'm curious about your perspective from the eCommerce side of things, how the metaverse fits in, Web3, crypto, all of these kinds of future-forward technologies that I know the organization is really excited about and consumers are starting to dabble a little bit in. But talk to me a little bit about how the metaverse might fit into eCommerce.

Benji Shomair:

Yeah. I mean, just think about how exciting it would be to virtually try on something in the physical world, that's sort of one of the more obvious experiences that people think about. And even who knows what the virtual opportunities will be to develop. But many times when you see a platform like this develop, the first things you see poured over are references to the previous era.

Rob Goodman:

Right. The first webpages were like just the newspaper kind of thrown up on a website.

Benji Shomair:

Exactly. And I think that's very much what we're sort of seeing and thinking about now. I think the obvious implication is like, oh, I try things on in the real world. I'll try things on in the virtual world and that'll be super helpful. And you already see that in AR ads where you can sort of with makeup see what it looks like in your face, AR ads with cars and see what it looks like in your driveway.

Benji Shomair:

And so you're already seeing that sort of first phase of experimentation take place, where we're taking our current rubric and our current way we look at things and just sort of applying it to this new world. I think what's even more exciting is the things we can't anticipate. And I think this touches on a lot of the Web3 and the world that's out there, is like what are the new paradigms that are opened up by these sort of new immersive experiences?

Benji Shomair:

And I think in many ways it's anyone's guess, and I think that's the excitement very much in the world these days around those opportunities is just the white space that's ahead of us. But I do think in many ways at its core, we're all still people. And so many of the sort of basic human elements will probably persist in this new world. I mean, the majority of consumers note that the experience that company provides them with is many times as important as the product or services. It's like the old expression, people remember how you made them feel more than what you actually said in some instances.

Benji Shomair:

And so really, we're at these first stages of building for the metaverse. And so we're focused on building that commerce infrastructure that will power these shopping experiences in the future in the metaverse, that will take all sorts of new forms that I think are incredibly hard to anticipate. But we look forward to seeing the creativity that brands are going to bring to continue to create these new shopping experiences by leveraging these social tools, as well as realizing how people will shop in the future. I think it's an incredibly exciting time. And I love both watching and being a participant and creating that future.

Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

The past couple of years obviously have brought so much change to our entire world, to business and to the way that people shop and live. What are the top trends you are seeing today in customer behavior?

Benji Shomair:

I think a lot of what we talked about sort of already this morning has been about changes that are being driven at the roots by the way customers are acting. And that's both how shopping has moved always-on, that's really sort of primarily a consumer or customer-driven dynamic that they are shopping in more places and shopping at more times than they ever did before.

Benji Shomair:

And then also where people are spending their time, of course, because their always-shopping has a really big impact. And increasingly they're spending their time on mobile and on mobile, they're spending their time in a lot of these social apps. And so I think those are two sort of macro trends that we're seeing in terms of customer behavior from a commerce perspective. But of course the last two years, there've been other macro trends that are going on in commerce, ongoing supply chain shortages and appetite for shopping locally, higher interests in sustainability.

Benji Shomair:

These are all sort of larger trends that we're seeing across what people are buying and where they want to buy that. From what we can see on our platforms don't see those being anytime soon and see these push for local, for sustainable continuing. And a lot of this I think is wrapped in this idea of how people are connecting with brands and connecting them in a really authentic way that I think people have always, I think to some degree had this, but we've definitely seen it a little more pronounced of late, is this people wanting to feel a connection to the brand stories of the products that they're buying, of the values of the organization they're buying from. You see it in ads, you see it in creators, you see it in community commerce. You're seeing this sort of bubble up in a lot of different places.

Benji Shomair:

And it also influences the trust that a consumer has to make that purchase both at a very tactical level of fraud and trust in the site, but also at a more philosophical level of trusting that organization to do something that is aligned with the values of the persons that are purchasing it. And so I think this creates really amazing opportunities for brands to connect with consumers and they can do that through content as we're talking about, they can talk it through ad opportunities to really communicate those brand values and reinforce sort of that reason to purchase from an organization you connect deeply with.

Rob Goodman:

Is there a strategy that seems kind of so obvious to you that you think a lot of folks maybe get wrong often or maybe it seems so kind of clear as day they look past it?

Benji Shomair:

The thing that I always come back to is this really fairly basic one, which is focusing on your customer and meeting their needs. I think it is maybe the first rule of business, but it's one that I find, gets forgotten in many cases. I think the folks who are probably best at this are really the small businesses where they're sort of every day touching their customers, understanding their needs, trying to deliver on that vision.

Benji Shomair:

But I do, and I have seen as companies get larger, they focus a little bit more inward and that can have dangerous results. And it's a natural tension as an organization grows that they aren't as focused externally and start focusing internally. But you see a lot of tactics out there in the world to try to actively manage this tension, right? So with Meta, we do things called customer immersions. And as soon as the organization started getting at a certain scale, we started investing pretty significantly where our teams are distributed around the globe right now.

Benji Shomair:

We have a very large footprint in Northern California, but we built for the world. And so we started taking our teams that are building those products, sort of into the world to sort of meet the people that are using those products understand their needs, and also try to make sure our teams are more reflective of the diverse people that we're building for.

Benji Shomair:

It's been a really powerful tactic to us, in many ways has allowed Meta to, I describe as operating much smaller than our scale and sort of make sure we keep that customer centricity at our heart. But I think as you get bigger, it actually is much harder than it seems. I mean, so there's some really thoughtful tactics that a lot of organizations deploy to try to maintain that because ultimately it's all that matters and it's the real path to success.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. Staying close to the customer and the customer need. What other advice do you have for folks listening who really want to revolutionize the way they're selling and running their eCommerce business? So what else can we add on to those, kind of, keys to understanding customer needs?

Benji Shomair:

The truth is, well, everything is changing. The constants are the same. Being where customers are spending their time, engaging them in an authentic way. Those things sort of are universal, have never actually been more important. If a brand wants to win, they need to be where people are discovering their products and they need to make it easier for them to buy at that crucial moment. There's a bunch of things that I think are going to evolve over the coming years that'll really help you capitalize on this. I mean, the first is this one-click checkout.

Benji Shomair:

I think that's going to become more and more standard in the industry as that line between commerce and content continues to blur, making it super easy to discover it, see it, buy it. I think that's going to become pretty standard and a really key tool in the eCommerce toolkit. Another thing, where people are spending their time, we're seeing a lot of interesting things in video, specifically sort of short-form video. Reels is a great example on Instagram. I think that's going to play a much larger role in discovery by the very simple measure that people are spending more time there.

Benji Shomair:

And so I think brands large to small sort of learning from what consumers are creating or doing in that space is going to be really, really powerful as people are spending more time there and finding the right way, sort of, for your brand to have a place sort of in that space. Creators, of course, are going to continue being a crucial role in the shopping experience. And it's one of the reasons, sort of, we at Meta are building tools to make it easier for creators to connect with brands and for those creators to share their favorite products with their audiences more easily.

Benji Shomair:

I think a lot of this is happening, as we started off on this sort of traditional model of, like, the product doesn't support the interaction as well as it could. And we're trying to catch up, I think creators have a lot of those elements where people want it, it's happening. And I think there's a lot we can do to make it easier and better. And I think that's going to become even more and more powerful as we look to the future.

Benji Shomair:

And then of course there's AR and VR. It's early days, but I think there's incredibly exciting things on the front. But I think the keys continue to be: be where your customers are, whether that be in person, on a social platform, in the metaverse – and it should actually matter what channel or format it is. Ideally if you make that moment shoppable, you'll see the results. It's a really exciting time for commerce as all of these things sort of come together.

Rob Goodman:

I love that. I also love that idea of make the moment shoppable. That's such a great line for listeners to kind of write down and stick on their walls, right? How can you make this moment of excitement, of entertainment, of engagement shoppable and make it a transaction as well? Which ultimately will serve your customers’ needs because they want it, they want that easy connection. Let's change gears, Benji. And I want to hear about either a daily or weekly practice of yours that has really helped kind of shape your life or your work for the better.

Benji Shomair:

I love rituals. I love them on a personal level. I love them at a business level. I think about, for my teams, sort of very deliberately and very actively. And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think one is that the old adage of actions speak louder than words, or that where you spend your time is really where your priorities are.

Benji Shomair:

And so setting those rituals, actually I find is a really powerful way to reinforce those priorities at a personal, at a business or at a team level. And then the second is it's nice with rituals, it's a bit of autopilot, kind of reduces the cognitive load where I'm not having to constantly make decisions to prioritize the things I care about. I get to kind of make that decision once and then it sort of sustains. But in terms of priorities, and how you create rituals, and this is a personal one. How do you set priorities at a personal level through rituals? Many people, family and friends, super important to me and not always easy with all the demands in your life to prioritize that.

Benji Shomair:

And so we've actually been hosting dinners, my wife and I, since before we got married, at our house, sort of in very, we lived in a different city historically before, we live out here in California now, sort of once a week standing dinner, it used to be primarily friends and sort of shifted to be like a family dinner plus appendages over time. And we'd always do like when we were earlier, like lots of photos and documentations, we actually have a secret Facebook group that everyone has ever attended this weekly dinner, but now it's been like 12 years.

Rob Goodman:

Wow.

Benji Shomair:

And it's amazing to look back at all of those memories and all of those people and all those connections. And it just gives me warm and fuzzies to think that this is a priority I've set that's really important to me, spending time with friends and connecting and now that we have young kids, having that family time every week and it's become just ritual, it’s habit, it never gets questioned. It's just going to happen every week because it's a priority and it's not a decision I need to make. But it's what I'm really happy about every week.

Rob Goodman:

Amazing. Benji, thank you so much for joining the show. It's been such a joy to speak with you and continued success at Meta.

Benji Shomair:

Thanks so much, Rob.

Rob Goodman:

That was such an insightful conversation with Benji Shomair, Vice President of Commerce Business at Meta. I really enjoyed learning about how Facebook, and now Meta, has been following their users in creating new eCommerce products over all these years. There's something to be said for building a platform that allows users to play and create what they need and then leaning into that to build new businesses that will ultimately empower those users to go further and build even more.

Rob Goodman:

I also love this idea we spoke about around making the moment shoppable and that comes down to what Benji talked about with the path to purchase dramatically changing for customers. Content is increasingly becoming the front door to eCommerce stores and that is shifting the pre-selling experience, where soon we'll see that going from content to point of purchase will happen in an instant. It was great to hear from Benji about where he sees it all going and that story around tapping into community and influencers to amplify their pre-selling experience, I think, is really key to thinking about new ways of driving word of mouth, creating value in scarcity and building a connected audience.

Rob Goodman:

One last thing that really stuck with me was this notion that no matter the platform of tomorrow – AR, VR, metaverse – it all boils down to customer experience and treating your customers right in all the environments that they may experience your brand in. After all, as Benji mentioned, people remember how you made them feel more than what you actually did. Bring that view to each and every experience you create for your customers and your business is sure to reap the benefits. You can learn more about Meta's commerce business at Meta.com/business, and check out more from Benji Shomair and Meta in our show notes at wix.com/nowwhat.

Rob Goodman:

This is Now What? by Wix, the podcast about how technology is changing…everything. Be sure to subscribe and follow the show wherever you're listening to get new episodes first, and please rate, review and share this show with your friends and colleagues too. Now What? podcast is produced and hosted by me, Rob Goodman, Executive Producer for Content at Wix. Audio engineering and editing is by Brian Pake at Pacific Audio. Music is composed and performed by Kimo Muraki. Executive Producers from Wix are Susan Kaplow and me, Rob Goodman. You can learn more at wix.com/nowwhat. We'll see you soon.