Demonstrate’s Sean DallasKidd on Next Generation Brand Campaigns

Sean DallasKidd:

There is the risk that if you stay in the ivory tower of observation too long, and you don't roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty, that you're not going to have a real connection and understanding of what's happening in the space.

Rob Goodman:

Hi everyone, and welcome to Now What?, the podcast from Wix about how technology is changing…everything. I'm your host, Rob Goodman, and in this series, we're talking all about evolution in business, design, development and beyond. In this new season of the show, we're diving into customer experience.

Rob Goodman:

As the world has rapidly transformed, customers’ expectations, behavior and needs have adapted with it. Paired with the emergence of new forms of social media, digital currency, the metaverse and so much more, navigating what this means for you and your organization can be a lot. We're bringing you fresh interviews and new insights from leaders that are reshaping business today to better prepare you for what's ahead.

Rob Goodman:

In today's episode, we're talking all about the future of brand and advertising campaigns with Sean DallasKidd, Partner and Chief Creative Officer at Demonstrate, an award-winning integrated marketing and communications agency. Sean and I discussed the brand and advertising campaigns of tomorrow through the lens of how brands are embracing Web3, NFT and metaverse technology to reach consumers in new and innovative ways. We also discuss the importance of inclusivity, equity and diversity in the worlds of design and business, why it's so foundational to emerging technologies and Web3, and how brands can evolve to build relationships with customers that are more savvy and sophisticated and allergic to being traditionally marketed to than ever before. You're in for a great conversation with my friend, Sean DallasKidd, packed with examples of brands doing amazing campaigns out in the wild. So let's get started. Sean, welcome to the Now What? podcast, so great to have you here.

Sean DallasKidd:

Thank you for having me Rob, very excited to be a part of this new season.

Rob Goodman:

So talk to me about your role at Demonstrate and what the agency is all about.

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, Demonstrate is an integrated marketing communications agency. I am Partner and Chief Creative Officer focusing on creative and brand strategy, help with concept development and taking that all the way to execution. So really trying to connect the dots through all the various pieces and components.

Rob Goodman:

And how have brand marketing campaigns changed in 2022? It seems like the world is such a different place because it is. And consumer behavior and needs are changing so quickly. How is that affecting the way brands are approaching their campaigns?

Sean DallasKidd:

I think it's become a lot more targeted, a lot more niche and — dare to say — a lot more metaverse. It was interesting last year we partnered with f'real, which is a blend-it-yourself milkshake and smoothie brand. And in order to build awareness, we really started to get a lot more targeted and focused on gamers with them. And so part of that campaign, we developed a downloadable app, which really became a almost surreal kind of brand experience, where we deconstructed the brand and had users turn into a milkshake, and survive a runner platform game where you dodge things in a grocery store aisle and bodega, anything from little shopping carts to bodega cats. And it was really interesting because we looked to incorporate some influencer partnerships. So we worked with Twitch and some TikTok influencers as well.

Sean DallasKidd:

What's also been kind of interesting when I think about the idea of being more targeted, I've seen some things out in the world. Good example would be with Chipotle. They did this really interesting program on Discord as a career fair event. And what was really cool about that is Discord is a very, at the time, very niche sort of platform. But Chipotle saw a 77% week-over-week increase in job applications, really by tapping into that targeted audience. Another really interesting program I saw was with Unilever's Degree, adaptive deodorant stick. I thought that was a really interesting product innovation to focus on bringing more inclusive utility to folks that are maybe more overlooked in some of the initial product SKUs. But really kind of focusing in on making a compelling offering and bringing them into the community. I thought that was a really great program.

Sean DallasKidd:

And then when I mentioned metaverse, I think the World Wildlife Federation, they had a very interesting NFT project called NFA “non-fungible animals”, as a way to build awareness by tapping into the metaverse and creating more of a donations program. As we think about the evolution that we're kind of sitting through right now, there's a lot of interesting testing, learning, but overall it's definitely becoming a lot more targeted, a lot more niche and people are having fun in the metaverse, which is great.

Rob Goodman:

And speaking of some of those campaigns, I'm really curious about your perspective of inclusive design and equity, and how it's going to play into Web3. What do you see coming? What do you think the hope is there and what are the risks?

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, I think the hope is that inclusivity will be baked into the foundations of it. I think that there's a lot of confusion in the space and that's the real risk. Right? The process, the language, is still very abstract to the average potential consumer. So we really need to figure out a more simple way to explain what it is and what the sort of benefits can be. If we don't lower that barrier to entry, I think things like costs, connectivity, et cetera, that kind of stuff comes to mind. And I think the potential of the space can't be fully tapped because it will be irrelevant to mass culture. They'll think things like it's for the rich, it's for the famous, it's for the privileged, a.k.a., not for me.

Sean DallasKidd:

And so, one of the ways in which I'm trying to help with this idea of inclusive design is I've joined as a sort of culture and diversity advisor to this NFT project called Creative Factory. It was a really interesting sort of collection that is dedicated to creative folks that work in the advertising industry space around the world, sort of goal being to act as an entry point into the NFT world. And it's really about creating professional community of creative people that are curious about the new opportunities presented by NFTs and metaverse and Web3 and whatever it turns into after we get past the internet super highway phase of it, in terms of nomenclature.

Sean DallasKidd:

And really the thinking behind it was that as you look back to 150 years of advertising history, Alfonso, the founder of Creative Factory, he found it very hard to find folks to highlight that are persons of color, women. And so what we wanted to do was look at a way to make this project help reset the system. And the goal is to highlight folks that have been historically overlooked, and going forward capture folks and highlight more diverse people working today. So it's almost like a history and a current making history collection so that we can really start to capture, share those stories, educate people about the platform and about NFTs that are in the industry, and then build on it as a sort of living document going forward.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, and I think that's a great segue to this idea of when is the right time for brands to get involved with emerging technologies. Right? You talked about making sure that equity is baked in, that it's technology and use cases and helping in the lives of everyday people in order to really break through and reach the mainstream by design. So when should brands think about experimenting, going all in, knowing that there are still those early adopters that are going to be experimenting where the mainstream hasn't tapped in yet?

Sean DallasKidd:

I would say now. Now is the time, honestly. As a creative, that has had many creative lives, first off in publishing, I've seen new technologies come in and seen brands slow to adapt to things like the internet to iPad apps, you name it. And so I think now's the best time to make mistakes. This is a great opportunity to start building community, uncovering various insights and ways of working before the stakes become too high. It's also a great time to tap into potentially influential audiences early and creating some really great, fantastic partnerships down the line.

Rob Goodman:

And how do you imagine the role of the agency changing? Do you see it as becoming a different kind of animal, a different kind of partner for brands? Where do you think the agency in and of itself as a structure is going?

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, what's really interesting, I think the first thing that pops to my mind is payments. So at the end of the day, agency is a business. And as you start to engage with folks in the Web3 space, you have to start thinking about and create a perspective on how and if and also when you're structured to accept payments in cryptocurrency. That's super important. What are the legal ramifications of that?

Sean DallasKidd:

We're actually working with an NFT project right now called Days Ducks and the team and community are great. I can't go too deep into their plans, so no spoilers here in that space, but they've got some very compelling ideas and I think they're set up for growth in the long term. So it's a great project, but with that kind of onboarding, it's a very different kind of process relative to how you traditionally engage with traditional CPG brand or DTC brand or something like that.

Rob Goodman:

You're saying because they're a Web3 business that's working in crypto, that's working in digital currency, you as an agency need to speak that language and need to have the technical knowhow to support their activities.

Sean DallasKidd:

Exactly. It's beyond buzzwords, it's, you're in there and you're supporting that community. Right? And that community helps select who they want to work with. And so it's not just the CMO, the CEO, it's an entire community that has input on the agency being selected. So in some ways you kind of get doxxed as part of the process, but I said what I said for everything that I said, so that was fine with me. And then I think one of the things we've done is that we just announced our acquisition of a branding and design agency called DDW that's here in the Bay Area. And we think what's really great about that is that they bring invaluable experiences, resources and expertise into the naming, logo design, packaging arena. And it'll help our ability to develop rich, evocative and compelling sort of brand stories and different kinds of communication strategies that'll drive business objectives on behalf of our client partners.

Sean DallasKidd:

And I think having now this truly end-to-end capability where we're able to start with a name or a business purpose, bring it down to the sort of tactile level. And building technology into even the packaging, or how we create design language, is going to be hugely important as you think about our go-to-market strategy, which is historically what Demonstrate does. We look at it from a paid perspective. We look at it from owned. We look at it from social, digital and sort of traditional advertising. So now I'm able to say, how do we truly make a brand that can scale across a mixed reality experience is going to be hugely important.

Rob Goodman:

What has it taken internally to get up to speed and educate yourselves on what it means to kind of operate on these different levels? Because I'm sure agencies that are listening are like, "How much of an overhaul do we need to have to our infrastructure and to the way that we learn and engage with communities in order to actually play in this space?"

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, you have to do the work. This is not the time to be lazy. It was funny, before we broke for the holidays at the end of the year, our Head of Paid Media, Tennyson Wilson, and I both really wanted to just dig in deep into the NFT space. And so I essentially spent the holidays learning, reading, trying, buying, selling and really learning how the ecosystem and the communities work. There is the risk that if you stay in the ivory tower of observation too long, and you don't roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty, that you're not going to have a real connection and understanding of what's happening in the space.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. It can be scary to break through into those new grounds, but I think that's where the reward lies. Right? In going out there first and making waves in terms of what brands, and the agencies who support them are able to do.

Sean DallasKidd:

Yeah. I mean, we've all learned how to move from just traditional sort of touchpoints into digital touchpoints, into social touchpoints. So I think it really comes down to having a growth mindset, and being comfortable being uncomfortable is hugely important. And so if you're not being challenged and stretched, that complacency is only going to be your enemy as things continue to accelerate.

Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

I know the layer of web activities and online websites that you manage and create with your clients is actually built on Wix. You use Wix to build and manage your client sites. How has that been helpful in terms of, from the agency organization side, kind of having one view of all the sites and handing off and all of that? And how do you see that evolving as all these different touchpoints start integrating into the web?

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, first off I have to say, Wix is a great tool. I'll use Luxardo, a client of ours, as an example. We developed LuxardoUSA.com on it. They do the cherries.

Rob Goodman:

I just bought some of those.

Sean DallasKidd:

They are delicious and they have a whole SKU of different types of adult beverage mixers, and it's a great cocktail brand.

Rob Goodman:

And a great website. I did check it out when you launched. It looks awesome.

Sean DallasKidd:

Yeah. I mean, I think what's great about it is it's a multi-layered website. It allows our customers, fans to learn more about the brand history. It offers resources for making cocktails at home, or in my case, a cheat sheet when I'm at a bar. It'll let you order on site, find products even. It even integrates with social, which is fantastic. So if you think about that as a resource, that is truly a compelling platform to gain some interesting insights. It gives us the ability to create campaigns that take prospects from awareness to conversion, and then informs other strategies like what we do on social. That really helps I think some of the insights, because we could start to see based on where folks are spending time on site, how we want to incorporate that into some of our messaging. What's really starting to resonate with folks out in the world?

Rob Goodman:

That's amazing to hear and it kind of connects to my next question. I'm wondering how brands might think about standing out when there's this seemingly, well, I think literally never-ending sea of content. The internet is obviously alive and changing constantly, but there's these memes that just kind of take over for a few hours, or half a day, or whatever it is. And then the next day it's just completely gone. Things just move on to the next. So, so quickly, how do you advise brands to think about standing out, to creating content, creating campaigns, creating social engagements that are going to rise above the noise?

Sean DallasKidd:

Well, first of all, it has to be interesting. Right? I mean that's how you drive shareability and I'll take a harder example, which is for a campaign. There was one that I saw called “Confusing Times” from Burger King and I thought that was absolutely brilliant. It tapped into the globally shared sort of cultural truth, that everything is weird right now because it is, time does not matter anymore. And they used that insight to introduce their Impossible Whopper. So it was a really great campaign. It was compelling. It was funny. I had people share it with me in DMs. It really just tapped into a shared sense we were all feeling. And they took a humorous sort of approach to it. I also think you need to have an opinion and a perspective if you don't want to become background noise. That's key.

Rob Goodman:

I mean, you've been giving a ton of advice as we've been talking, but specifically for agencies that are listening and even business organizations that are listening, what advice do you have for them to break out of their traditional campaign models?

Sean DallasKidd:

I think one of the things really is you have to think holistically. Like I said before, you have to do the work. You need to be able to connect the dots so that you can ensure that your brand is singing from the same songbook at the end of the day, across all the various touch points. What's happening in store, what's happening on social, what's happening above the line, how does it influence any of your event activations? Because people will come into whatever funnel or infinity loop or whatever the strategist circle is that they've made at various moments in time. Not everyone's going to start at the same entry point. And so you want to make sure that your brand is communicating consistently, respecting the channels that it's on. But really it comes down to thinking more holistically. And I also think doing things like tapping into your fan base and looking for opportunities to co-create with them is hugely beneficial.

Sean DallasKidd:

We work with a brand called Hirsch, which is a whiskey brand. And we worked with them last year on a UGC campaign where they're all about this idea of chasing your horizon, finding your thing that you have passion for. And so really being able to reward folks in a way for showing them their horizon moment, what brings them joy in the middle of all of this craziness going out there, was a great way to take a brand truth and then add a little bit of positivity in the middle of all the madness going on at the time and have fun with it at the end of the day.

Rob Goodman:

It's great advice. And it's something that we like to bring to our work. If we're having fun, making it, then people should have fun experiencing it. And they see that joy kind of coming through. And obviously at the end of the day, businesses are trying to produce business metrics. They're trying to produce impact that is ultimately going to grow their business, increase their revenue, increase their reach. What is your take on brand metrics in this new world and measurement?

Sean DallasKidd:

I'm just going to say it, please go beyond impressions. Please go beyond impressions. You need to look for real engagement at the end of the day. You need to create these moments for feedback and interaction, whether it's digital or IRL. And as you create a feedback loop, you can start to convert fans into advocates and gain valuable insights that will help you achieve those business objectives. Because as you start to look at younger audiences, they see through the marketing, they want to see action. They want to have it be measurable.

Sean DallasKidd:

And the balance on that really is the fact that for brands that they have a passion for and are actually doing the work and taking action, they are willing to help co-create. They have become invested in the brand in a lot of ways, and they become advocates for the brand. And that buys more forgiveness if you do have any stumbles and are honest and upfront about those. So I think it's about engagement. Any relationship that you have is around engagement. If I don't talk to you, don't text you and don't want to engage with you, I can't expect more than I'm giving.

Rob Goodman:

Right, there's no relationship there. So I mean, it's almost like quality over quantity, but ideally the quality is at scale. And you're having quality engagements. You're having quality relationships. You are connecting with what these folks care about in a meaningful way so that they will then take it forward. They will talk to you. They will share it, all of those things. So you really have to closely know and understand what these communities, what these customers, what they care about.

Sean DallasKidd:

Yeah. And certain brands belong on certain channels. When you just think about social, everyone was having panic attacks, moving away from sort of traditional media. You had your big three and then digital became a thing. And everyone was like, "Oh, the world's becoming so much more, everything's so much more dispersed." And now we've got the metaverse and everything else. So you need to pick some lanes that make sense for you, because to go half an inch deep on 40 channels, isn't going to do anything. You want to experiment, yes, but have some of those core channels where you have built a community that makes sense for your brand, and go deep there and make some relationships.

Rob Goodman:

I want to change gears and ask you a question that I've been asking all of our guests this season. Obviously it's been really challenging times and I'd love to hear about a daily or weekly practice of yours that has helped either in your personal life, in your business. It could be something big. It could be something really small. Tell me about a habit of yours that you've built up over this time.

Sean DallasKidd:

I would say it's more of a sort of process where it's read, listen, learn, then talk. I like to stay plugged in to culture. Connecting with people in real life is one of my favorite ways to play with any ideas, get some unfiltered feedback in order to grow. Then beyond that, it's really been pushing for a more inclusivity and more equitable society. I think that's something very important to me. I'm actually an advisor to Represent Collaborative. It's called REP CO. It's a storytelling platform that covers issues of racial and social justice. The underlying theme behind all the stories is activism. And I believe it provides a rich and nuanced editorial perspective focused on the BIPOC community. And really the goal there is to help dilute some of the poisonous misinformation out there. So I don't know if it's as relaxing as it should be, but it's a practice of mine that helps me feel good with my place in the world.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. That's amazing and wonderful work that you're doing. I really appreciate you sharing that, Sean. And while I have you here, I feel like I have to ask. What's the last brand campaign you saw that really kind of blew your mind? I know you've given a ton of examples, but anything super recently that you were like, "Wow, they really knocked it out of the park"?

Sean DallasKidd:

I'll give you a bit of a curve ball. What I really enjoyed was the Louis Vuitton fashion show in Paris. They worked with Tyler, the Creator. It was really beautiful and joy on his face and everyone involved. It was just this fantastic expression of creativity and a tribute to the late and great Virgil Abloh. It was fantastic. It just brought a smile to my face, but it was quite lovely.

Rob Goodman:

Sean, thank you so much for joining the show. It's a joy to talk to you and thanks for all your amazing work and for the great insights today.

Sean DallasKidd:

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Rob Goodman:

That was such a fun conversation with Sean DallasKidd, Partner and Chief Creative Officer at Demonstrate agency. There was a ton of insights from today's episode, but here's just a few that stood out to me. First, for brands and agencies building campaigns for brands, now is not the time to sit on the sidelines. It's the time to get down, get dirty, roll up your sleeves and get into it. It's the time to try out new tech, to get in early and build connections with these communities and with other experimenters out in the space. When Sean talked about all of his NFT exploring and learning and hunkering down with a growth mindset, as he put it, "It's about being comfortable with being uncomfortable." So start getting used to it now.

Rob Goodman:

Second, think holistically. Now more than ever with so many channels and touchpoints, so that no matter where people touch your brand, they're seeing and experiencing all the dimensions of your brand that make it uniquely yours. So whether that's social, mobile, IRL, or otherwise, consistency builds trust, which builds loyalty, engagement and ultimately retention. And lastly create moments for feedback or interaction to convert fans into advocates, especially with this next generation. Younger audiences want to see action, outreach and engagement from brands. That kind of outreach and listening mindset will ultimately lead to co-creation where fans become advocates and ambassadors. That's where you start tapping into the magic of co-creation together and having customers to tell your story for you.

Rob Goodman:

Also, keep in mind not to spread your brand too thin across channels. Choose a few lanes that make sense for your brand to go deep in. Build those relationships and that community, and have a real impact in those places. For more on Sean, you can find him on LinkedIn, Twitter. You can check out what Demonstrate agency is up to at wearedemonstrate.com. And get links to articles, campaigns and more that we discussed in this episode in our show notes at wix.com/nowwhat. Thanks so much for listening.

Rob Goodman:

This is Now What? by Wix, the podcast about how technology is changing…everything. Be sure to subscribe and follow the show wherever you're listening to get new episodes first. And please rate, review and share this show with your friends and colleagues too. Now What? podcast is produced and hosted by me, Rob Goodman, Executive Producer for Content at Wix. Audio engineering and editing is by Brian Pake at Pacific Audio. Music is composed and performed by Kimo Muraki. Executive producers from Wix are Susan Kaplow and me, Rob Goodman. You can learn more at wix.com/nowwhat. We'll see you soon.