How to connect to your customers

Mordy Oberstein:

It's the new wave of marketing podcasting. Welcome to SERP's Up Plus. Aloha, Mahalo, for joining the SERP's Up Plus Podcast. We're pushing out some groovy new insights around what's happening in digital marketing. I'm Mordy Oberstein, the head of SEO Brand here at Wix Central with the fabulously incredible, the amazing, the unparalleled uncompromised Head of SEO Communications here at Wix, Crystal Carter.

Crystal Carter:

Hello? Kidding.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, that's the best response yet. That's the best response yet. So good, Crystal. Hi.

Crystal Carter:

Hey, guys.

Mordy Oberstein:

How are you?

Crystal Carter:

What's up? Really happy to be here. It's my favorite thing about Andy Murray. He's a tennis player in the U.K. and I remember he won Wimbledon or something like that, and he was there giving a reception speech. He was like, "I'm really happy right now. I know I don't sound that happy, but I'm really happy."

Mordy Oberstein:

It's like Latka from taxi, "Thank you very much."

Crystal Carter:

People express emotion in different ways. That's fine. It's a rich tapestry of humanity.

Mordy Oberstein:

We haven't done this podcast in a month, it's a monthly podcast, so I'm excited for this. We have a great guest coming at you. But first, the SERP's Up Plus podcast is brought to you by Wix, where you can dive into the connection between you and your audience by using all of the social media tools, templates, and integrations found in both Wix and Wix Studio. Get more details over wix.com/studio. I bring up connections because we are here today to help you connect to your audience and consumers in an ever-changing digital landscape. That was so cliche. We're going to dive into what works, what doesn't work when connecting with your audience and consumer base. How are audience expectations changing? We'll probably get into something around AI, I imagine, about that, and what are consumers actually looking for that perhaps they weren't looking for in the past?

To help us dial up the connection, creator of Confidence Live and Founder of Roar, a real world training agency that works, Kirsty Hulse will join us in just a jiffy. So unplug your landline and jimmy the modem as this month's SERP's Up Plus Podcast helps you connect to the web of interest and expectations that is your audience and consumer base.

Crystal Carter:

That was incredible breath control there, Mordy.

Mordy Oberstein:

I even put it in my notes, "Pause for effects."

Crystal Carter:

I mean, you missed your calling. You could have been an auctioneer or a grime emcee

Mordy Oberstein:

I'm telling you.

Crystal Carter:

Have you ever been to a live auction?

Mordy Oberstein:

No, but that sounds horrible.

Crystal Carter:

It's incredible. I walked into a cattle market once and it was like, "da, da, da, da, da ,da…]. Sold. And I was like, "What just happened?"

Mordy Oberstein:

A cattle market?

Crystal Carter:

Yeah.

Mordy Oberstein:

They were selling like it it's at Yellowstone? They're selling...

Crystal Carter:

You love Yellowstone.

Mordy Oberstein:

I do.

Crystal Carter:

You love that TV show?

Yes, they were literally selling cows.

Mordy Oberstein:

Wow.

Crystal Carter:

It was one of the highlights of my life. I find that fantastic. Anyway, so there you go.

Mordy Oberstein:

I normally find that with our regular weekly series, SERP's Up, which is an SEO focused podcast, that sometimes we really have to dive into some background on whatever the particular topic is, because SEO is weird and technical or niche and that sort of thing. But I find on this podcast there's really no introduction needed.

Crystal Carter:

I mean, I hope we're going to give Kirsty an introduction.

Mordy Oberstein:

That was my pivot. That was my pivot. That was my pivot. I was going to say there's no need for introducing the topic. I feel like we all understand the importance of connecting to your audience and your consumer base, but we do need to introduce our guest. I was this close.

Crystal Carter:

So close, so close. Great lines. I'm so, so pleased that Kirsty Hulse responded to my message of invite because when we were thinking about this, Kirsty was the first person that came to mind because I absolutely have been such a fan of Kirsty's approach to marketing and particularly her approach to, and I'm thinking about Kirsty in the third person as if she's not in the room, the virtual room, but she is, I'm introducing you anyway, Kirsty, but yeah, the incredible way that Kirsty speaks very plainly about marketing like, "It's not that complicated." And I've just always been in such awe of that and so giving. I'm a member of the Women in Tech SEO group and Kirsty has given bespoke training there.

Kirsty does her Confidence Life courses and events and things like that, and she's incredibly giving with marketing knowledge and it's always super valuable and always on point. And she also is the patron saint of making sure that people get their window seat when they're owed their window seat. So I think that we're so pleased to have Kirsty here at the podcast, and thank you so much for joining us.

Kirsty Hulse:

Thank you. Thank you so much. What a wonderful introduction. I will take that I'm the patron saint of window seats.

Mordy Oberstein:

I feel like I need context.

Kirsty Hulse:

No.

Mordy Oberstein:

No? Okay.

Kirsty Hulse:

No context.

Crystal Carter:

There was a tweet and I saw the tweet and I was like, "Yes. Absolutely, yes." So that's what I will say about that.

Mordy Oberstein:

Was there a fight over a window seat?

Kirsty Hulse:

I basically went low-key viral on Twitter because some dude wasn't giving this woman her window seat, and I stepped in.

Mordy Oberstein:

Nice.

Kirsty Hulse:

So yeah

Crystal Carter:

She didn't even go to the details. I remember this very clearly, and the tweet was something like, "I went to go get in my seat. This lady sad in my seat and she was like, "Oh, there's this man sat in my window seat." And Kirsty was like, "Needless to say, he's not sat in that seat anymore." And I was on a plate and somebody else was like, "You're in my seat," and that came to mind and I was like, "I am not in your seat. I am in my seat. Thank you very much. End." Anyway, it was very important to communicate the needs in that situation and Kirsty did so effortlessly for all people who have booked a window seat because they like the window seat. So there we go.

Mordy Oberstein:

Amazing. End of podcast.

Kirsty Hulse:

Goodbye.

Mordy Oberstein:

But in all seriousness, let's talk about connecting with your audience and your consumer base and I guess let's start off very, very, very basic. What works, what doesn't work when you're trying to connect to a consumer base and your overall audience?

Kirsty Hulse:

Lovely, thank you. And so maybe just a bit of context about the lens that I'm going to talk about this through. So my background's marketing, my background's SEO, I run an SEO agency, and then the past few years I've been a speaker predominantly. So I'm really in the connection game. Whether that's in blog content or Instagram captions or on a stage, same rules apply. So a lot of the things that I teach and that I'm actually really passionate about, the format doesn't really matter. I think the most important cardinal rule of connection, it's first and foremost, you have to be a living human being with living human experiences. And you have to give yourself away a little bit so that people can connect to that.

Mordy Oberstein:

Well, we got to the AI thing so quickly. That was the fastest rocket into AI.

Kirsty Hulse:

I know.

Mordy Oberstein:

So I can't put a prompt in to say, "Hey, connect to my audience for me, large language model."

Kirsty Hulse:

Well, there's a distinction here. AI is incredibly good at informational content, and people respect that kind of content and people will learn from that kind of content. But people attach to emotional content. So actually I use AI. It has huge amounts of value to help structure and organize and somewhat with that informational data-based content. But if you're trying to move someone, so that moving someone could be, are you trying to sell a product, are you trying to get them to change their behavior in any kind of way, then it can be done through AI everything it can, but I think it's more powerful and more meaningful when we do that through our...

Kirsty Hulse:

It's more powerful and more meaningful when we do that through our own lived human experiences. And that's through things like storytelling and the modeling of emotion, which maybe we'll come onto later.

Crystal Carter:

And I think it's interesting that, and one of the first points that you made, was that it doesn't matter what platform you're on when you're speaking to people, that you aim for connecting with people. And certainly I'm a follower of yours on multiple platforms, and I've definitely seen that. Like, Kirsty does Kirsty when Kirsty is doing Kirsty. There was that meme that was going around that was like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and it was different pictures of different things, whatever. And I think that one of the things that you're very good at, and one of the things that I would guess you might advocate is having the same picture of them. Do you know what I mean? Having the same sort of tone of voice where your audience knows you wherever you go. Is that something you'd advocate for?

Kirsty Hulse:

Yes. 100%. I think the main thing that I advocate for generally in life, it's almost this de-masking of ourselves. This kind of like, let's just stop for a hot minute acting or pretending that we don't have warmth or charisma or humor and taking our personalities and zipping them up in some kind of professional straight jacket in the name of being businesslike. I hate that. And I actually think that's something that really gets in the way of our ability to connect. Which, whether we're trying to get that connection from a marketing perspective or just a human perspective, same. That's all we want to do as humans. We just want to see and be seen.

Mordy Oberstein:

I really think that that point, one, is so profound, so easy to understand, but so completely glossed over. It's literally why we had a podcast interview with Rand fishing about the genuine self and the role in marketing. But I also think it's something we discussed internally a lot when we were building, say, landing pages. I know there's been many discussions about this that when you look at your traditional landing page it's very businesslike and it's slightly over-promising, if not completely over-promising, and highly actionable, get this, do this, ultimate this, the best this, get it now.

And I feel like perhaps, and maybe I'm wrong, I don’t know what your thoughts are, that people are sort of starting to see through that and seeing that as a mask and they're looking for something a little bit more emotional, a little bit more genuine, a little bit more conversational. And I think that we as marketers and SEOs and content writers are a little bit behind the curve on that. And we're still creating content like it's 2009 or 2019, rather, and not in a way that's actually connective. And I think we're running the risk of putting a schism between us and our audience. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Kirsty Hulse:

Yeah, totally. And the reason that I'm on this podcast is because I have become known and associated with certain topics, that's not an accident. And all of the content pretty much that I create is story-based. But I think sometimes when you are creating content that's a story and a narrative I think the mistake or maybe the incorrect assumption that marketers make is that we just wing it and we just tell stories and just be yourself. It's not that actually, so the process that I go on whenever I'm trying to connect with an audience on a stage, on an email, doesn't matter, the process that I go on is I think about the main point that I'm trying to make. Am I trying to sell some training? Am I trying to position myself as an expert? What is the one thing that I'm trying to do with this piece of content?

And then the second question I ask myself is, what experiences have I got from my life that demonstrate that point? And then you tell that story. And then you tell the story, like the research on MRI scans show that we use emotional information when making decisions, that humans are built for stories. So the justification as to why you would do stories is unlimited. The difficult thing we can sometimes find is how. So I have a spreadsheet that has a list of things like what are the main points I'm trying to make in my marketing and what are the stories that relate to that? And I tell those stories. And actually for my audience, they're receiving nourishing content because it's story based, and at the same time it's reinforcing my brand. And it's not an accident, it's an intentional considered process.

Crystal Carter:

Right. And I think that the interesting thing about stories, the interesting thing about experience, we recently had a conversation with Lily Ray about experience, about the E-E-A-T, and I mean to tie this back into SEO, SEOs they've added in that experience element on the EEAT. And I think that one of the things that's interesting about that is something that I think about, and I'm not sure if I've mentioned it on this podcast but it's certainly something that was a core realization of mine. But I had my kid, I got lots of advice about parenting and that is tiresome. However, hearing other people's experience about what happened with their kid or that kid or whatever, that was useful because you can take whatever nuggets from that experience.

So the thing you're talking about, about tying in experience to a point that you're trying to make, there'll be a reason why there'll almost certainly be an experience that prompted you to start that business or prompted you to make that product or prompted you to write that piece of content that is connected to you. So yeah, I think it is worth explaining what that is to people so that people know why you're writing that piece of content.

I remember reading someone's thing and it was shocking about gut health stuff, and I'm like, why are you writing this? Is it because you had some problems with your gut and you found some stuff out? Or is it because you're a clinically trained microbiome person? What is it? Explain your connection to the content and people can understand that.

Kirsty Hulse:

And I think one of the things that I know to be true, I know this will be true, the more specific a story is to the individual the more universal it becomes.

Crystal Carter:

Absolutely.

Kirsty Hulse:

If I'm doing storytelling training, people will say, well, people don't care about me. And I'm like, you're right, they don't. They don't. But they do care about themselves. The value of stories isn't to show off or tell people about you. The value of stories is to give people a mirror to view their own experiences internally. That's why books are generally better than movies. If you have a favorite movie that's turned into a book, the book is better because it's your imagination. That's the value of storytelling.

Mordy Oberstein:

That's such a great point. We talked about this internally before at Wix, where we're going, the story of Wix, here's our story. We're running through a couple of brand positioning dialogues. I love brand marketing. One of the things I think brand marketers make a mistake with is that what you're trying to do is to deal with your audience's pain points and to show your audience that you solve those pain points. Whereas I think in reality, what you're really trying to do is to get the audience to see themselves in you. And there's so many different aspects that go into that. And that could be showing that you're an expert in the area. Oh, I'm also an expert in this. You're also an expert in this. Great, now we're on the same page. There's so many layers that go into that.

But you're really trying to create a real association between your audience and you in so far as that they see themselves in you. And that's why I think in terms of brand marketing, brand marketing's very, very wide. And if you want to be successful with it and to really resonate with your audience, you have to think holistically. Otherwise, you cannot create that association between yourself and the audience.

Kirsty Hulse:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think on that kind of brand stories, you get a lot of websites who will do exactly like you said, be like our story. That's not actually storytelling, that's product sharing. What a storytelling would be, would be something like, I was sitting at my computer and my heart was racing in frustration and I threw my mouse on the floor, and that was when I knew it needed to be different. Good stories are specific, specific tiny moments in time. So, if you want to be better at storytelling-

Kirsty Hulse:

So, if you want to be better at storytelling, just be really specific. Think about a 30-second moment and articulate that tiny moment. That's how you tell good stories, I think.

Crystal Carter:

So I want to flip that around a little bit. If you'll bear with me. And I know you do a lot of training, so you must have this pop up all the time, what about the risks of this? What are the risks associated with bearing... Not necessarily bearing all, I guess, but with telling some of those stories? When do you hit TMI, or where do you find the challenges around that?

Kirsty Hulse:

Yes. Thank you, that's a lovely question. One of the things that I always say is, there's a big difference between authenticity and disclosure. And I think sometimes, people think that they need to bear all. The majority of my life is secret from me. I share freely on the internet, but the majority of my experiences are for me. They're to be earned, they're private. So, I think the idea that we all have to share our stuff in order to be considered authentic and to be able to connect just isn't true. I think first, it's kind of like… authenticity doesn't mean you have to tell everything. Authenticity means you can pick moments from your life, illustrate the point you're trying to make.

And also, I think maybe we'll come on to this when we talk about connection. Connecting with people isn't about what you say. It's really about the energy that you are bringing into that moment and the intentionality. If someone is dumping, we can feel that if someone is just truthfully sharing from a place of service, we can feel that. As the content creator, as the marketer, whatever we want to use, it's important that we can feel the difference. And we're talking about emotions, and this is emotional resonance that we can feel the difference in our bodies really, like is this coming from a true place of serving and helping others? The answer to that question always has to be, yes.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah. And that's really the difference between messaging and positioning, the two different things sometimes. There's the message, and then, how you're positioning yourself to deliver that message. And they're not the same always.

Crystal Carter:

Right. Right.

Kirsty Hulse:

Sure.

Crystal Carter:

There's a thing where they're like... Is it you sell the... People talk about how do you sell me this pen? And it's like, "Oh, it does this, this, this, this." And it's like write something down. And then, someone's like, "I don't have a pen." It's like, "You want a pen"?

Mordy Oberstein:

Where's the spoon?

Crystal Carter:

Right, right. You're selling someone a solution. So, we talked to them about solutions. There we go. But yeah, I don't know if you want to get onto the AI questions there, Mordy, or the other questions.

Mordy Oberstein:

No, honestly, I'm sick of the AI stuff for a few minutes. Whatever. Use AI, don't use AI, see if I care. No, I don't mean it that way. You should use AI, use it responsibly. Reference our podcast with Kim Garst about how you can use it in your marketing responsibly. What I'm interested in actually is how do you see, what resonates with consumers changing, and how has it changed? Has it changed? Where is it headed? And I'm sure AI factors into that actually.

Kirsty Hulse:

I think what I'm seeing changing is like we touched upon earlier. There really is, and this has always been true, but I think it's just becoming more the case. There is a deep desire for meaningful connection. And I don't know about you, but I can tell if someone's content is written by an AI. We can just tell. We know. We know your tweets were written by AI. We know. We can feel this stuff. It's subtle, and that subtlety is going to get increasingly subtle, which I think is cool and exciting.

But I think what consumers are wanting, and we're all consumers, I wonder if consumers don't want to be thought of as consumers. I wonder if actually what we want is to just really come back to our humanity. And I think the value of using AI is, I don't think AI is going to take people jobs, but I do think people who use AI in alongside of their humanity, that's when it gets really powerful when you connect those two things together. Again, I think just people want to see their lived experiences reflected in whatever you're trying to share with them.

Crystal Carter:

Do you find that the need to connect across these different spaces becomes more acute as it becomes more and more fractioned, I guess? There's Instagram, there's Twitter, there's WhatsApp, there's Threads, there's TikTok, there's this, and there's that. So, I think that there's a feeling that like, oh, maybe I need to be always on in order to connect. But sometimes, somebody says, "Oh, I sent you a message," and you're like, "Where? Which channel did you send me a message on?"

Mordy Oberstein:

Hangouts. I put it on on Hangouts.

Crystal Carter:

I wonder if that's affecting how we connect. What's that?

Mordy Oberstein:

I sent it on Hangouts just to throw you off.

Kirsty Hulse:

No, my mind just gone blank. Was it Google Plus?

Crystal Carter:

Yeah, Google Hangouts. I was on Google Plus.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah. Yeah, sorry, I hijacked that. Yeah. What do you do then?

Kirsty Hulse:

So, the question is how do we deal with all of these multiple platforms? Do you know what? I'm probably, I'm maybe a naughty person to ask this question too, because I ran businesses and worked in marketing for a long time, but I've never really done... In fact, no, there's no really, I've never done a marketing content strategy really other than this story mining process I was telling you about. So, I've never thought about how I'm going to be on LinkedIn, versus how I'm going to be on Twitter, versus how I'm going to be on Instagram. I think what I do is I have a person, an individual, not a group of people, not personas, not demographics, one human person that I know deeply that I picture and I communicate to them, that one person, and that one person is on LinkedIn. That one person is on Instagram.

And even though these platforms do different things, the person that you might be your ideal customer on LinkedIn is maybe thinking about things slightly differently, but they still have heartache, and grief, and children, and put their socks on in the mornings. So, I think for me, I've never changed my approach by platform. I just rinse and repeat across the different things. And I think that's easier when you have the individual that you are talking to, rather than, I think sometimes, as marketers, we can bucket people into groups.

Mordy Oberstein:

Personas.

Kirsty Hulse:

Like we're talking to CMOs of this age. Personas. Exactly. Yeah. And they can be really helpful, especially if you're doing paid stuff, they can be very helpful. And I think for me, coming back to this desire for connection, where's the human within this data? Where's the emotion? Where's the... And so whenever I do something, I'm thinking about one individual, and I know her, and I can see her, and she has a face, and I talk directly to her.

Crystal Carter:

I remember working on an account that was a golf account, and I've never golfed a day in my life. I don't golf, but I have a good friend who is golf mad who when the sun shines, he's out and he's golfing. And I was working, doing some social media stuff for this golf account. And basically, whenever I wrote anything, I just imagined my golf friend who goes on and on and on about how much he loves golf all the time. And I wrote all of the content with him in mind and things, and we got great responses from it, and checked it with people who were in the community, et cetera, et cetera. And it worked really, really well. So, yeah, absolutely. If you're listening to this podcast, take Kirsty's advice on that because it's a great tip.

Kirsty Hulse:

One of the things I've observed is we go on three phases when we're communicating with people. And again, that's one person, 10 people, 10,000 people, doesn't make a difference. We start by trying to impress others. We start by being like, "Will people think I'm smart? Will they think I'm cool? Will they think I'm funny? Will they think my product's good?" Whatever. We start with this very, it's about us trying to impress people. And then, eventually maybe that fades, and we get into what I call inform. And inform is when we're good at sharing information. Inform is like, "Here's the information, and I'm going to give you the information." But then, if we're lucky, we get into the third category, which is what I call inspire. And inspire is when you're like what you were just talking about, Crystal...

Kirsty Hulse:

And inspire is when you are like, what you were just talking about, Crystal, "I'm here to meaningfully inspire action." And I think if we're trying to connect with our consumers, the most important thing is it isn't about you. It's not about you. It's never about you. And when we can remove ourselves from the picture, it's only ever about your audience's joy or your audience's understanding or your audiences. And I think just that little subtle shift can change the way that we start creating.

Mordy Oberstein:

I feel like we're in such an environment right now where you have all those subtle little shifts happening right now in terms of expectations, in terms of the way content is generated, but not only the way content is generated, but the type of content you're putting out. I think it touches back on something that you were talking about earlier. I guess now I do want to swing back around to the AI thing. I'm sorry, I can't stop myself. But I know we talk about, and you hit on this a little bit, we talk about in general, AI and content writing and AI can produce all this content for you, and that's this huge impact of what AI will do for the web, but what you hit on before was, the fact that you have all this AI content coming out makes people look at content in general a little bit differently.

Is this really real? Is this really the content that I want to consume? How do I know it's the content that I want to consume? If it's AI, is it okay if it's AI? I guess it's okay in this context if it's AI. And I feel like the biggest change that AI theoretically can make is not just in the volume of content that's able to be generated, but what it means for the skepticism of people looking at content and what they want out of content and what they're expecting out of the content that you're producing. Do you think that, that changes the way that we need to go about communicating and connecting to our audiences, realizing that perhaps they're a little bit more, I'd say skeptical is a bad word, I don't have a better one on the top of my head, but a little more skeptical or a little bit more thoughtful rather about what they're looking at and what they're expecting to consume?

Kirsty Hulse:

Yeah. And I think it's skeptical, but I think more than that it's saturated. And so I think AI poses huge amounts of opportunity. We can create so much content. And that's good, actually. I'm not anti-AI at all. And I also think it's going to encourage all of us to be better, because the barrier to entry to market, to write, to connect is now just so much lower that I think in order to be good, everyone now is already good, in order to be absolutely incredible, impactful, amazing, that still remains within the realm of the human. But we can all be good now. We can all create good, solid, decent content in AI. And so if you want to be good, go ahead. If you want to be really powerful, then add in a little bit more.

And increasingly I think people are a little bit more skeptical, and I also think that we can somehow intuitively feel when things are generated by AI, which is fine. It's really good in some instances. So I think there's that distinction that it's really possible to be really good with AI generated content, and I think in order to be really exceptional, we still need a big sprinkle of humanity alongside it.

Mordy Oberstein:

I love that. I think that's so true, such a good point. With that, where can people find you in case they want to connect with you and experience all of your storytelling out there in the ether that is the internet?

Kirsty Hulse:

Well, we were joking about this before, weren't we? That I'm very fortunate in that my name, there's nobody else with my name. My name is Kirsty Hulse. You Google me and I'm all over the place. I own those SERPs.

Crystal Carter:

Indeed. You're like Beyonce. There's only one Beyonce. There's only one Kirsty Hulse. There we go.

Mordy Oberstein:

Like we told Lily Ray the other day, we'll link to your Google search in our show notes.

Crystal Carter:

To your SERP.

Kirsty Hulse:

I feel like a a lot of your guests feel like, "Yeah, just Google me." But I got that down.

Mordy Oberstein:

Honestly, we haven't said that. I feel like it's such a snarky, "Where can we find you?" Whatever. Just Google them. You'll find them there. It makes my life doing the show notes far easier, by the way.

Crystal Carter:

I would say though it's worth visiting Kirsty's website. Kirsty has talked a lot about storytelling. Your about page is a fantastic about page. It's like an origin story and I think that there's some great stuff in terms of seeing in action how you can shape a story that is connective, that is rich, and that is not oversharing, but is being open at the same time. And I think that, that vulnerability. Because you share some personal stuff on it. Not every single detail, but you share a few personal elements there as well and I think that, that kind of vulnerability also makes people connect more to you as well. So I think that Kirsty's about page is a fantastic page. It's kirstyhulse.com/about.

Kirsty Hulse:

Well, I actually have, which I think would be genuinely really valuable, because I get asked. I think sometimes people assume that when we tell stories, it happens by accident, and it really, really, really doesn't. Crystal, if you've ever read one of my emails and thought, "Oh, that was emotionally compelling," it doesn't just happen. There's a whole process. The spreadsheets, once a nerd, always a nerd. But there's a spreadsheet. So actually I'll send it to you so you can put it in the show notes. I've got, it's totally free, a template for how to craft more storytelling into your marketing in a way that's really simple. People tend to add it into their content marketing calendars. So if anybody loves a spreadsheet, I got you.

Crystal Carter:

Oh, that's me. So yeah, if you can just drop that in my inbox, that'd be great.

Mordy Oberstein:

Amazing. Thank you so much, Kristy, for coming on and enlightening our audience. We really appreciate it.

Kirsty Hulse:

Thank you both so much. This was really lovely. I appreciate you chatting to me.

Mordy Oberstein:

For sure. And dear audience, well, thanks for joining us on the SERP's Up Plus Podcast. Are you going to miss us? Not to worry. We're back next week with a new episode of SERP's Up, our regular SEO podcast, and back next month with another SERP's Up Plus for more marketing talk. Look for it wherever you consume your podcast or on the Wix SEO learning over at wix.com/seo/learn. Looking to learn more about SEO and marketing with all sorts of great content and webinars? Then head over to the Wix SEO Learning over at, you guessed it, wix.com/seo/learn. Don't forget to give us a review on iTunes or a rating on Spotify. Until next time, peace, love, and marketing.