SERP Features - Google's secret sauce

Mordy Oberstein:

It's a new wave of SEO podcasting. Welcome to SERPs Up. Aloha, mahalo, for joining this SERPs Up Podcast. We're pushing out some groovy new insights around what's happening in SEO. I'm Mordy Oberstein, head of SEO branding here at Wix, and I'm joined by our one, our only, Head of SEO Communications, Crystal Carter.

Crystal Carter:

Hello, all you groovy internet people. It's me, it's you, it's all of us. We're here. Hello.

Mordy Oberstein:

And it's another special groovy internet person, but I'm not going to tell you who it is. But he'll be joining us shortly. He's quite groovy.

Crystal Carter:

Very groovy, very groovy.

Mordy Oberstein:

He might have a massive hangover at this point, but he's quite groovy.

Crystal Carter:

Groovy, insightful.

Mordy Oberstein:

I wonder who could it be? Who could it be?

Crystal Carter:

Who could it be? Who could it be? Who could it possibly be? It's very interesting, it's our first time having a guest on this portion of the show, so it's great.

Mordy Oberstein:

It is, which reminds us that this podcast and this portion of the show, as all the rest of the portions of the show, are brought to you by Wix, where you can pragmatically build, create custom site functionality. Integrate with all sorts of tools, customize and scale the heck out of your Wix website with our own full stack dev tool, Velo. By the way, shout out to Colt Sliver for writing an awesome post, I'll link to it in the show notes, about doing that. Check it out at wix.com/velo.

Okay, crazy show today. We're talking about boxes, lots of boxes. Boxes, boxes everywhere and not a URL to spare. Hi, I'm an SEO poet.

Crystal Carter:

You can't keep me in a box. Don't fence me in.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah. Well, I guess you can keep us in a box, because basically this week we're diving into the squares, rectangles, carousels, drop down menus that Google loves showing us on the results page as we take a very special dive into Google's special SERP features. We'll talk which features matter, how to best leverage Google's SERP features, what they mean for the SERP and for you and your competitors and your family and your family of your competitors. You get a SERP feature, you get a SERP feature, we all get a SERP feature. Hopefully, we all get a SERP feature. Crystal, do you have SERP feature?

Crystal Carter:

Do I have SERP feature? Like a featured snippet?

Mordy Oberstein:

Mm-hmm, maybe.

Crystal Carter:

Or a feature about crystals? There's probably a feature about crystals. If you look up crystals, there's probably lots of those sorts of things.

Mordy Oberstein:

There's a lot of SERP features about crystals.

Crystal Carter:

Yeah, there's special crystals that you can get that will help you to do better on your SEO. I know.

Mordy Oberstein:

We're going to get into all of that. We will not, however, have our usual guests share their usual thoughts in our usual clip of SEO exquisiteness. No, no, no, no, no. Rather, we're going to have a guest co-host for the majority of this podcast. Again, who can it be? Wait and see.

Plus, we'll take a look at what I call the universal SERP feature, the People Also Ask box, as we explore a possible scenario where I think you should not target the questions inside the People Also Ask box, and we'll see why we have some fun with the old PAA box. And of course, of Snappy SEO News and who you should be following for more SEO awesomeness on social media. Episode number 11 of the SERPs Up Podcast is live.

So back in the day when you searched for something on Google, you got a list of results and ads.

Crystal Carter:

Yeah, we call them the plain blue links.

Mordy Oberstein:

Right. The 10 blue links, which we still call them the 10 blue links, even though there are not 10 anymore.

Crystal Carter:

No, there's not 10. You can expand it if you try and change your settings to show 100 at a time if you want.

Mordy Oberstein:

Oh, right and there's also the scrolling. However, well, the question I guess is, why are there not 10 anymore? Part of the reason is, well, there's a bunch of reasons, but a big part of them is SERP features. So type in pizza near me and you get a big old square block thingy with usually three local businesses where you can grab a slice, and we call this the local pack. Google, how many home runs did Babe Ruth hit? 714 in case you cared. And Google gives you the answer in a box. Same if you type in Tom Hanks movies, you get a carousel listing his movies or the weather in New York, Google gives you the forecast right there at the top of the result page. And of course, no URL's, meaning Google giving you the answer, and you don't need to visit a website anymore, which has caused a lot of perhaps needless controversy around it.

I think a little bit is legit. I think a lot of the controversy around the lack of URLs is not legit, but different conversation for a different time because today we're talking about the plenty of SERP features that do and don't have a link as Google has things like, I don't know, feature snippets for when you search for how to install Windows. Google will give you a snippet with the initial steps to follow, followed by a URL with a full process. Search for your favorite sports team, and to the right of the organic results, you get a knowledge panel giving you all sorts of information on the team, including a link to their social media profiles or Wikipedia page, and even a link to the team's website.

The point is, Google's results are far richer than they used to be. They're far more than just the standard organic results. SERP features play a huge role, which is why we have a very, very, very, very special guest to help sift through all of the SERP feature noise. You may know him from his very popular newsletter, Growth Memo. He's also one of the most prominent, most respected, brightest thought leaders in all of SEO land. Welcome to the SERP's Up Podcast, Kevin Indig.

Kevin Indig:

Mahalo. Hey.

Mordy Oberstein:

Oh, jumping right in with the Hawaiian theme.

Kevin Indig:

I'm trying to match your energy here, man. I've been to October Fest, I'm still feeling groggy. Just trying to get back to life here.

Mordy Oberstein:

We're glad you're plowing through the hangover to join us and talk about SERP features. It's one of the topics that you've written a lot about, and feel free to plug away at all the pieces that you wrote about, and we will link them in the show notes.

But I want to start off with one thing. We've talked about in the past, the SEO world's been hyper focused on feature snippets or direct answers that have no URL, and Google, quote, unquote, "stealing clicks." But when I look at their SERP now and I see the SERP features that are there now, one of the things that stands out to me is how many filters there are, different carousels, different bubble filters, different expandable tabs that sort of get you from your initial query to other queries.

And it seems to me like Google's like, we kind of understand that users, you may search for a head term or a very top level keyword, but we know you want something more specific and they're trying to get users through the SERP features to those more specific results.

Crystal Carter:

And in many ways, they're sort of guiding the searches. I think one of the things you see with this is, it's sort of an evolution of the mobile first thing, because essentially you're on a mobile, it can be sometimes very difficult to type out something really, really long. Whereas, it's much easier to just click the suggested, the related searches, or to click one of the SERP features that has an image and has a card and that sort of thing. How do you think that mobile plays into the evolution of SERP features, Kevin?

Kevin Indig:

Yeah, I think it plays into the evolution a lot. And the way that I explain this whole kind of thing with SERP features and filters to myself is that basically every user is on a journey. Every search is kind of part of a journey. And Google actually thinks about that the same way. They're very vocal and public about this. There was this very interesting case study that Google published on Think with Google. So Think with Google is their, it's a little bit of a marketing think tank. It's actually like a blog. But they published some really cool insights.

And there was one case study where they showed that people who are booking a flight have over hundreds, sometimes over 500 touchpoints with Google search. And it can be small little things like how is the weather in Rome? Or do I need a Visa for Rome? Very small searches that could be yes or no. But also very long searches like booking the flight or booking a hotel or putting together an itinerary. Basically, what Google's trying to do with SERP features is they're trying to shorten the time that it takes for people to complete their search journey.

And as you already correctly pointed out, sometimes you have to refine your search or change your search, and that's a little bit of friction. And instead, Google provides you little apps or little features in the search results to click on a different result or to filter results in a way that they make more sense for you. So it's all about shortening the time for people to complete their journey. And in the context of websites, that could also mean few people clicking through to websites and people staying in the search results longer where Google shows them more ads.

Crystal Carter:

I think that can be the case. I mean, one of the ways that I tend to advise people about trying to navigate this is to try to get more involved with the SERP feature. So you mentioned hotels and travel, Google Hotels, Google Travel, that sort of space. If you're not on the board, if you're in that space, if that's your niche, then it will be behoove you to make sure that you're eligible for that content and that you're eligible to show on that content so that even if they don't click through to you, they're seeing you regularly in that SERP feature. And it's similar for Google for Jobs and for other features as well. Have you seen that work for people or brands?

Kevin Indig:

For certain SERP features, absolutely. So there's some SERP features that you can quote, unquote, "rank in" or be visible in, like image carousels, video carousels, featured snippets, people also asked, those kind of things. But then there are others where you just, as a brand, sometimes you can bid, you can pay for being visible in the case of the Google Flights search module, for example, you can literal bid to be visible, but there are also some where you just can't do anything at all, like a Google Knowledge card, for example. And that's when the only thing you can do is just be aware that this happens in the search results, and understand what the impact on your traffic could be.

A lot of the conversation about SERP features, it really starts with understanding. And that's not that easy because I don't think there are many tools that have a very, very accurate reflection of what's happening with SERP results. Two, there's a lot of change. So Google does a lot of testing with these SERP features. They might be seasonal even. And then three, there are all sorts of different consolations. So sometimes you'll see a featured snippet and top ads and a map pack, and then sometimes it will be just a map pack, and then other times it will be product listing ads. So there's a lot of different permutations and combinations that make all of this a bit more difficult.

Crystal Carter:

We think about one SERP feature at a time, but oftentimes you see a combination. So you'll see a featured snippet that also has an image carousel or also has a video, or also has an accordion dropdown. So if you're showing for one of those, then that'll affect how many people are coming to your website and you're showing for other ones as well. And yeah, I think you're entirely right about how often it changes. Looking on how search works, and they have a section about rigorous testing, and it says they're launching 750,000 search quality tests, 11,000 traffic experiments, and that sort of thing where they're testing different parts of the SERP, and they'll try features, they'll remove them, they'll add them, they'll take them away. So it can be tricky to track.

Mordy Oberstein:

They're super strategic about it too. For example, when they went to infinite scroll to not really infinite scroll. So two, three weeks before that, they started implementing much larger and many more visual images on mobile, which makes a lot of sense because if you're going to start infinite scroll, if you're scrolling down and it's just a standard 10 blue links kind of feel to it, it's not really engaging. So infinite scroll needs to have a more visual SERP.

So what they did was they first rolled that out because they knew they were, I think, because they knew they were going to roll out infinite scroll afterwards. Now, when you go through a mobile and you scroll through after scroll, after scroll, after scroll, it kind of has almost like a social media feel to it because the SERP is so visual.

Kevin Indig:

Yep, totally. I think that the search results are more of a feed these days than the classic 10 blue links and use it as an intro. Matter of fact, even though desktop Google doesn't show 10 blue links anymore for most of the searches, less than a half. Actually, most of the times they show eight or nine results.. But yeah, the search results are constantly changing, it makes a lot of sense. Most platforms, and especially consumer platforms these days are feeds where if you're not happy with a result that you see right now, you just swipe or you just scroll. So it's a very, very normal behavior. And as you said, it makes a lot of sense to also visualize the search results a bit more because everything is getting more visual. Everything is also getting more oriented around videos.

If you look at some of the most successful platforms, consumer platforms these days, it's all about video, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, even Spotify added more videos for podcasts and songs and all that kind of stuff. So video's kind of the format of the hour. And Google is thinking about how can they bring more video to the search results in a way that it feels native and it makes sense. And so for example, another SERP feature that has been shown up lately that's been really killing it are short videos. They're often dominated by TikTok, not always, but that's going to be another playing field where people are just going to look for the... I have a search query, or I'm on a journey, what's the one minute video answer to my problem? So that's something that brands will have to think about.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, and it's funny to me because the SERP is one of these places where you see something like that, where they're adding on shorts like that. And you could say, as a marketer, that's a moment to say, "Stop. Wait a second. If Google's doing that, reverse that." Oh, that must mean people are looking for that kind of content. I don't have that kind of content. I should probably be creating that kind of content, and SERP features and what Google does on the SERP, to me at least, it's great to reverse engineer that to figure out what you should be doing with your own website.

Kevin Indig:

A hundred percent.

Crystal Carter:

I think also with video, a lot of people will say, "Oh, but the thing I do is really boring." I don't know, not to say anything about tax attorneys, but you don't think about tax attorneys when you think about video, for instance. And you might say, "Oh, nobody wants to..." But that is precisely the time to make that kind of content because your competition is going to be incredibly low. So if you make any kind of content, you're going to get a lot more air time than somebody who's trying to make dance routine videos. It's going to be very difficult to compete there. But I mean, if you're a dancing tax attorney, that's even better.

But yeah, I think that even if you think that it might not be a vertical that lends itself to video, be creative, try some interesting things there. And just one more thing about video and about SERP features, Google Search Console is a really good place also to get information about how you're performing on different SERP features. And Google recently updated the information that they share about videos, which is another sign that they're leaning more heavily on this type of media, and it's something to pay attention to. It's something that you can track much better now.

Kevin Indig:

Yeah, absolutely. But one thing that they said, Mordy, that's really smart, we wanted to comment on very quickly is that the SERP features can be compass for us. So one thing that's super important for all sorts of brands and websites to understand is this concept of user intent, which just means what are people really trying to accomplish? And since Google is trying to understand user intent as well, sometimes it can be very clear, other times very ambiguously, we can kind of use the SERP features that appear for certain keywords to understand what the actual user intent is. Are people trying to buy something? Are they trying to learn something? Are they looking for inspiration? And then tune our content toward that user intent. That's incredibly valuable. And a little bit of a hack to understand user intent at scale for lots of keywords.

Mordy Oberstein:

Looking back at doing that, looking at the SERP, seeing what's there now, what features Google's showing, what that means for what people are looking for, because I know you've been studying this for a long, long time. Going back, if you look back at what Google used to do and you fast forward to now, how would you describe what's changed?

Kevin Indig:

That's a great question. I think the SERP features themselves have become a lot better. One example are people also asked where the questions are just so much more relevant to the actual search query that people are looking for. And those little questions, those little guys, they're tuned for engagement. So oftentimes when you search, for example, for a brand and the SERP feature is, the big question is like, oh, is this brand legit? Is this brand legal? All this kind of stuff. So very tuned to engagement, and so much more relevance.

Another thing that I noticed is that Google rank so much better to seasonality. One of my favorite examples is the search query or the search term Independence Day that most of the time of the year means the movie with Will Smith. But once a year, of course it means the holiday in the US, and you see that Google is very good at just finding the right time to switch the layout of the search results when people start having more of an intent that's related to the holiday, and just being present at the right time. So I feel like this whole SERP feature construct has been very, very choppy in the beginning, and now it's very smooth. It's like it's very tailored to users and it makes a lot of sense.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, I've definitely seen some really cool things they do dynamically. For example, knowledge panels. Let's say you Google a sports team, if it's during their season or it's before their season, there's different news around the team. Different things are important to that team, depending upon what's going on. If you're, before the season, signing new players, contracts might be really important. During the season, stats might be really important. I'm making this up. Google changes the bubble filters there on the knowledge panel, depending on what's going on with the team at the time. So all of a sudden contracts will show up as a tab in the knowledge panel because yeah, it's the preseason. Everyone's trying to sign new players. It's amazing what they do dynamically.

Crystal Carter:

And I think also another one is, so within the Google business profile, you can see if a place is busy before you decide to go to the beer hall, you can see if it's busy and if you're going to have to wait in line or not, for instance. And I think that's something that's fantastic as well. And I think that's another good example of ways that Google combines some of their systems. So they're able to look at information from Google Maps, if lots of people are asking for directions to that place, then they'll know more information about that, you're also able to layer that with information on the SERP and lots of other content.

So for instance, if you query something, the example I always use is vegan donuts. I like donuts. So if you're looking at vegan donuts, they'll give you a Google business profile result that says on their website, they talk about vegan donuts, even if it doesn't say it in their Google business profile. So they're able to layer lots of different parts of their tools to create dynamic information that serves the user, because Google wants to serve the user at the end of the day.

Kevin Indig:

It's a great call out. And while we're talking about maps, I recently did an analysis of 20,000 e-commerce keywords, and I noticed that over 80% of these keywords show a map pack. So Google is leaning very heavily into maps in general. It's a new avenue. First of all, I mean, it's very helpful product. Second of all, it's a new area where they can show a lot more ads to drive more revenue and all that good stuff. And that has a profound impact on how much traffic you can get if you're not present in a map pack.

Not every business is local, but if you compete in e-commerce, then that means you also compete against local businesses, and that's kind of a new dimension of competition that a lot of businesses don't have on their radar that is really, really important to understand and track. So it might be that if Google shows a map pack at the top of the SERPs, the percentage of clicks you get from all the searches can be minimal, can be as low as even 5%, even if you rank number one. So it adds a new flavor to SERPs.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, SERP feature's great in a scenario where you really have to qualify your rankings. Ranking number one might be great, but now you might be actually below the fold, so it might not be so great. But you actually beat me to it. I was going to ask you about e-com, because it's such an interesting space when it comes to SERP features, and it's kind of what, generally speaking, what you see happening out there in the e-com space. Obviously, now you talking about the map packs, but just there's so many. There's PLAs and product carousel with multiple kinds out there. Google seems to really be immersive. And of course, that ties into Google shopping and all its efforts to beat out Amazon. So just kind of curious what you're seeing out there in the space.

Kevin Indig:

So the one in charge you already called is the product listings that are coming from the organic feed of Google shopping and sometimes from image search. So that is getting, it's really important. And even more poignant on mobile search. So one thing to always keep in mind is difference between desktop and mobile. And on mobile, these carousels just stick out so much more, they're so much more interactive.

Mordy Oberstein:

So much space.

Kevin Indig:

Yeah, so much more space. It's nuts. So if you can look at the difference between desktop and mobile when it comes to your keyword performance, keyword ranks, keyword click-through rate, that's a great first step to do to just get a better understanding of what's happening in keywords that are important to you. So there's one trend. Second trend what we talk about is maps. Third trend is just more image carousels, especially when it comes to inspiration. So one interesting search that I came across is smiley face nails. So apparently you can kind of, I don't know, paint emojis on your fingernails.

Mordy Oberstein:

I must have this now.

Crystal Carter:

I'll get right on that.

Kevin Indig:

But no, it's very interesting. And you see that there are a lot of images obviously popping up because Google wants to help people with inspiration. But some of the image search is also connected to Google shopping. So sometimes Google will mix products in image search, and that gets really interesting. That means that you might have a shortcut to compete in a very competitive search result with an image instead of an organic listing. And it opens up a whole new playing field for SEOs and for driving traffic and maybe even conversions. So image search, getting really important. And then a fourth trend that I would add is product listing ads.

Product listing ads are very different than the classic top ads, which are just text, product listing ads have images, they might have reviews, pricing, shipping information. They're very, very engaging for users. Users love to click them, and they have a very different kind of feel than the classic ads because they already show the product, they already show a lot of information about the product. So people are much more likely to click on product listing ads than the classic ads, which means less traffic for organic results as well.

Crystal Carter:

And I think it's interesting with those ads, how to differentiate when you have similar products, because you have to figure out which part of the SERP feature will make the difference with the click-through. So you talked about some of the things they showed, and sometimes they don't show the review for the product, sometimes it'll show the review for the shop, and there's images, there's prices, you can have promotions on it. Lots of information there.

In my experience, I've seen it where I had a client who was doing some of that, and we had it where everyone was selling the same product, everybody pretty much had the same product. So I just picked one that had a ridiculous picture. So everyone was selling, it was like a uniform, and everyone's uniforms were gray and black and beige, and they had a polka-dotted one. And I was like, "We put that one in the picture." And they were like, "What?" I was like, "You put that one in the picture because it'll stand out." And it did. And they got loads of traffic to the other stuff. But it's important to figure out ways to differentiate yourself and to make yourself look unique.

Kevin Indig:

A hundred percent. Yep, I think this whole idea of image optimization is going to become much more important. Not in the classic sense of alt tag and file name and surrounding text, but much more like what can you see in the image? What does a background look like? How can you stand out just a little more than your competition? It's going to be a thing.

Crystal Carter:

Absolutely. I've done a lot on visual search in the last few months, but yeah I agree.

Mordy Oberstein:

We'll link to it in the show notes.

Crystal Carter:

I agree.

Mordy Oberstein:

So I'll sum this up, because we're running out of time, unfortunately. We could talk about this literally for another hour or two hours. If you're serious about ranking and you're serious about doing well organically and bringing in traffic, you need to go to the SERP and look at all the boxes and rectangles and squares, and expandable carousel and tabs and whatnot, because if you don't, you really don't know what's happening and you really don't know what opportunities are there waiting for you.

Crystal Carter:

Say it louder, Mordy.

Mordy Oberstein:

Don't dare me to do that because you know that I will.

Crystal Carter:

Look at the SERP.

Mordy Oberstein:

Look at the SERP.

Crystal Carter:

Just actually Google it. Actually follow the user journey that someone would follow to find your product or website or whatever.

Mordy Oberstein:

And when you do, search for Kevin Indig so you can find him. Of course, we'll link to all of your wonderful assets you produce, your social profiles, everything, you just let us know. Follow the links Kevin, let us know what you want us to link to and we'll link to it in the show notes.

Kevin Indig:

Thanks so much. I'll send you a Google Talk or a spreadsheet.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yes, please if you could, keep it at a minimum of like two or three tabs. Seriously, Kevin, thank you so much. Always great talking with you, and I'm not sure how to end this, because we've never had a guest on this show before. I'm so lost, we didn't even thank you.

Crystal Carter:

Thank you so much, Kevin, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Kevin Indig:

Thank you as well. Maybe we just don't end this, maybe we just stay on for a day or something.

Mordy Oberstein:

Just silence for a second.

Kevin Indig:

Until we go to sleep.

Mordy Oberstein:

Perfect.

That was absolutely amazing. You should definitely follow Kevin on social media. He is not our follow of the week, not that he doesn't qualify to be, but he's already here. We have another follow of the week, but that's later. But first, here's a fun little game we play. Both to sort of mess with each other by a tad to understand what's happening with Google. And in this case, I think it highlights some of Google's shortcomings, which by the way, everyone has shortcomings, search engines included. We're all just people.

Crystal Carter:

They're handling thousands and thousands and thousands of searches every day. And my entire back catalog of every image I've ever taken a screenshot on my phone, they're busy. It's a lot to manage.

Mordy Oberstein:

It's a lot. So we feel, oh, Google's going to get it right. They're not supposed to get it right every time. So when I say I don't think they got it right this time, I don't mean it in a negative way. I mean, they're just being human.

Crystal Carter:

Google's being human. Is that okay?

Mordy Oberstein:

I'm taking this to a new level, I don't want SEOs to get upset at me for saying that, but I said it, and we're just going to leave it at that for a minute. But first off, wouldn't it be super scary if they always got it right? I'd be freaked out if every single time Google got it exactly right, I would think something's not right here.

Crystal Carter:

Well, and also they can only work with the material they got. So if other people haven't written anything that's decent, what are you going to do?

Mordy Oberstein:

People gloss over that point all the time. I just spoke about that in the conference in Brazil, can't remember the name. Terrible. But I literally spoke about it, it's our fault. It's not Google's fault, it's our fault. But anyway-

Crystal Carter:

Make better content.

Mordy Oberstein:

That's right. Make better content. Say it louder, Crystal.

Crystal Carter:

Make better content.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yo, make better content. Anyway, we're looking at the four, well usually four, questions Google lists on the results page, when you expand the tabs, they sit and reveal a secret answer along with the URL. Well, usually it's with a URL, sometimes not. And it's not really a secret answer. Anyway, let's have some fun with, People Also Ask. Crystal, this time you're on the hot seat.

Crystal Carter:

Okay all right, I'm ready. What are we doing?

Mordy Oberstein:

Are you ready?

Crystal Carter:

Yeah.

Mordy Oberstein:

So I'm going to ask Crystal, I typed in a keyword, and this has to do with Crystal's background. Crystal can elaborate or not elaborate, it's not my business. But the keyword is-

Crystal Carter:

I'm surprised, I don't know what you're going to ask me.

Mordy Oberstein:

I know you don't know. I know you don't know. This could be terrible and horrible or fantastic. We don't know how it's going to go yet. We're doing it live.

Crystal Carter:

Okay.

Mordy Oberstein:

Is it fair that military families have to move so often? That's the key word.

Crystal Carter:

Oh, this is... Okay. So just the background on the background is that I'm a military brat. So yes, I would say... Oh, I don't know. Yes, might the answer be? Or they might have two because it's not easy for families and stuff, but likes families often move because of ….

Mordy Oberstein:

Right, that's true.

Crystal Carter:

So yeah, I would say they might have... What does is say?

Mordy Oberstein:

Let's see what Google asks. They have four questions.

Crystal Carter:

Oh, I thought that was the question.

Mordy Oberstein:

No, I'm sorry. That was the keyword I put in.

Crystal Carter:

Okay, got you.

Mordy Oberstein:

Okay. That keyword brought up what people also asked, So there are four questions, and when I expand any of the tabs, I get an answer. So let's start with the first one, I have a whole point to this, at the end of this. It's not just silliness for the sake of silliness. There is an SEO point to all of this.

Crystal Carter:

Okay.

Mordy Oberstein:

Okay. First question. How often do military families have to move?

Crystal Carter:

Ooh. In my experience, one to two years.

Mordy Oberstein:

Well, not bad. About every three years. Military families move about every three years, but sometimes more frequently. The move is called a PCS or a Permanent Change of Station. Okay.

Crystal Carter:

Okay, yeah.

Mordy Oberstein:

All right, so far so good. Okay. Second question. Why do military families have to move so much?

Crystal Carter:

Because whoever's in the military, the adult who's in the family, who's in the military, will change where they're based. So they might be based in Hawaii, they might be based in Florida, they might be based in San Diego, but when they switch where they're based, then the family has to move.

Mordy Oberstein:

And that's basically what Google says. So far we're so good. Google's asking questions, Crystal's giving the answers. We're all locked up here. How often do military spouses move?

Crystal Carter:

They tend to move with their spouse. So the same as the family, if they'd said three years for the first one, I would guess they would say three years for the ….

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, they say every two to three years. Okay, fine. They give a whole thing. How about this question, last one. Do military spouses have to move?

Crystal Carter:

Well, the answer is no.

Mordy Oberstein:

Right. Well, no one. Yeah, they could say, "I want a divorce, I'm not doing this."

Crystal Carter:

I mean, to give you real insight to it, sometimes people decide like, "Oh, we'll stay. You'll go for a little while," because , don't know if you want to get into it, but sometimes sailors are out to sea for most of the time anyway, so it doesn't make much difference whether they're there or not. Anyway, it's a whole thing.

Mordy Oberstein:

Crystal, Google says the good news is that the military will pay for your spouse to move as long as you live in the same home together, depending on the amount of leave you have, your spouse may be the one making most of the moving arrangements, which doesn't really answer the question, but okay. So what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Crystal Carter:

Yeah, I'm interested in where you're going.

Mordy Oberstein:

I don't know. First off, I need to ask Crystal, where was the coolest place you lived?

Crystal Carter:

Oh, this is what this is. This is the setup for the whole thing. This is the whole reason why this is. The coolest place I ever lived was in Hawaii. I lived in Hawaii, I lived in O'ahu. So yes, I did mayday presentations and learned how to do the hula, and we did mele kalikimaka, and all of that stuff. So yeah, that-

Mordy Oberstein:

Amazing. And was it frustrating? So, setting you up here. I'm setting you up. But was it frustrating to have to move so often? Was that fun?

Crystal Carter:

It was tricky, but it was fun sometimes. When we moved to Hawaii, I lived in a hotel for three months when we first got there, and we were right next to the Hilton. And so we got to see the fireworks every Friday night.

Mordy Oberstein:

That is actually awesome. Okay, fireworks are awesome. So two points here, and this kind of goes about what I was just saying a second, one is, okay, Google's a little bit redundant with the whole spouse moving thing. And Google. People also ask sometimes they do that, and that happens. But what I was really interested in, when I was searching this, imagine I was putting myself in your shoes. I'm a kid, I'm going to have to move. Think of the keyword. Is it fair that military families have to move so often and Google totally missed a word fair.

Crystal Carter:

That's very interesting, you're right. That is interesting. So there's an emotion there.

Mordy Oberstein:

There's an emotion. There's a bias in the question. The question assumes it's not fair. And what I'm already looking for is either information about why this has to be this way or some sort of emotional support of an identification. So maybe a blog. I would've thought better than a People Also Ask, what would've been cool to show here, which they didn't show, would be a carousel from Quora or Reddit or one of the other social media platforms where I can see other people's answers, not Google's answer to the question, which goes back to my original point.

Sometimes, which by the way, on mobile, they do have a bunch of those carousels there, whatever. My original point is, sometimes we say, "People also ask, take those questions, great keyword research tool, use them, write a blog post, take those four questions and write a blog post for each one of them." In this case, I don't know, maybe you shouldn't use them.

Crystal Carter:

So I sometimes find, when I'm searching, that sometimes the People Also Ask doesn't make sense. Sometimes I'm like, "I'm not asking that at all. I don't know why anyone would ask that, that's nothing to do with it." And I think it's interesting because when he first asked me the question I thought you were asking me the People Also Ask, and I said, "Sometimes it's tricky."

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, see. Sometimes it's part of it. It's part of the intent.

Crystal Carter:

So yeah, because sometimes it's tricky. And I think that that question is asking for some empathy, isn't it? It's asking for some empathy about a situation that is sometimes tricky. I think to your point, if that is a query that you're seeing that people are actually asking, if you're finding that people are asking that in your conversations with people, or that you've seen it show up in a tool, that people are genuinely asking that or that's a query people have, answer the question. Create content that answers the question, not necessarily content that the shows in People Also Ask because the People Also Ask questions are generated, regularly.

So they will generate new ones if they're finding that people aren't actually engaging with the People also ask questions that they have, and also with regards to which content they show in the answers, they change around what that is. So if you're able to better answer that question than the content that's currently there, then you can move into that spot and they might also even create a question based on your content. So I think that as you say, it's worth referencing it, but also thinking with your own brain, and-

Mordy Oberstein:

And think a little bit, does this actually solve the person's question? If they expand the tab, Like why's this question even here?

Crystal Carter:

Yeah.

Mordy Oberstein:

Think qualitatively, not just quantitative. SEO is not linear. That's the lesson for today, from the SERP features to the people also ask box, which is a SERP feature, don't think linearly about the SERP.

Crystal Carter:

There we go. Thank you very much. That was quite the journey for me, Mordy. I was ….

Mordy Oberstein:

I'm sorry to make you relive your childhood, just for the sake of a podcast.

Crystal Carter:

You're just like, "Hey there. How about some childhood trauma?" No, I'm kidding. My childhood was lovely. I had a lovely childhood. It was very nice. Thank you.

Mordy Oberstein:

Well, every time you've talked about it, it's only been positive, things like going to Hawaii. So I figured I can go there.

Crystal Carter:

Yeah, no, it's fine. It's fine. But no, I think you're right about empathy. But also I think sometimes with content, you are talking about sensitive issues, and it's important to approach that content sensitively to be able to help users. And if you're able to show compassion in your content, then that is something that will engage with clients, with users, and with the people that are engaging with that content a lot more than just a keyword because they'll think, oh, this company, this person, this author, has some empathy with my situation. And that's a really good thing.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, empathy is always good. I think that's the moral of the story; empathy is always good. You know what else is always good?

Crystal Carter:

What's always good?

Mordy Oberstein:

News.

Crystal Carter:

News.

Mordy Oberstein:

News is always good. Everyone loves news. So here is some Snappy News. Snappy News, Snappy News, Snappy News. Been a hot minute since I've come across a really nice SEO study, but our dear friends at Semrush and the author of the... Been a hot minute since I've come across a really nice SEO study. But our dear friends at Sun Rush, by the way, plug for the Wix, Semrush integration, check that out, have a really nice study for us authored by Marcus Tober.

This one looks at zero click searches. Let me take y'all back in time a little bit. A few years ago, Rand Fishkin, founder of Moz, and SparkToro, did a study showing that 50% of all Google searches do not result in a click, and the SEO world went nuts. "Google is stealing clicks." "No one needs websites the way Google is set up." "They're answering all the questions themselves," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The most recent data Rand put out was that Google searches result in, 65% of them, result in zero clicks.

Now, nothing against the study itself or Rand, who has contributed greatly to the SEO community over the years, but this was not my favorite study for two reasons. One, 50% of searches not resulting in a click to a URL on the Google results page isn't entirely helpful. For example, how many of those no clicks were actually query refinement or keyword refinement, meaning you search, you don't find exactly what you're looking for on that set of Google results. So you search again, that's a zero click, or clicks where you don't click a URL, for example, but you click on one of the other filters Google has on the page.

So for example, you move from the traditional Google SERP and you click on where it says images, and you look at all the images there, that's technically a zero click search. So how many of those zero clicks that we studied way back when were actually those, which is not the zero click, the nefarious zero click that people are all upset about. The other reason why I didn't really love the study is that not every time there's no click on a set of Google results, is that a bad thing? I don't want a website, when I type in weather in New York City or Yankees score, I don't want to go to a website. I'll be honest with you. As a user, I just want the answer. And that's just the evolution of content delivery. Which is, by the way, Semrush in their study does a really good job of explaining.

So the end of the whole study itself, there's a whole nice piece on the analysis of the study, so check that part of the study out as well. Now, the Semrush study was a little bit more nuanced, or a lot of bit more nuanced. It tried to better explain the data categories than split them up as much as possible. For example, as opposed to saying, "65% of all searches on Google do not result into a... Do not result." Let's try that again. "Do not result in a click to a URL." Semrush showed, well, about 10% of searches were users moving from one SERP to the next. For example, they were on the main SERP. They typed in, Tom Brady, they went to the main SERP obviously, and then they clicked maybe on images and looked at all the pictures of Tom Brady, whatever it is.

Semrush separated those out, and those were about 10% of the time that was happening. So that's 10% of zero clicks are just people moving from maybe the main SERP to, let's say, the shopping results. Now, 18% were zero clicks, but were actually query refinement, where you maybe entered another new keyword. Meaning, you searched for one thing, didn't see what you found, didn't click on anything, and typed in a new keyword or a more specific keyword. Now within that, there might be some actual zero search, zero click searches in there, mixed in with that, according to the Semrush data, but fine.

On top of that, there are a legit 25% of cases where it's a real zero click, where you just maybe found the answer on the SERP. Technically speaking, the way the data's structured, you could have just left the page open for two minutes and not have done anything, the Semrush data would've counted a zero click. But leave that aside, the bottom line is, around 25% of the time, perhaps a little more, if you look at the data the way it's structured, perhaps. I'll try that again, bottom line is, around 25% of the time, perhaps a little bit more, based upon how the data is structured, you're not seeing a click to organic result or an organic URL, when someone searches on Google, which is far, far less than 65%.

So great job, Semrush, love the nuance. Have a look at the study. We'll obviously link to it in the show notes. It's really important to understand. I will say this, it's really important to understand the Google ecosystem, how things are set up, whether you're an SEO, whether you're a digital marketer, whether you're a business owner, whether you're a site... Whatever it is, super important to understand the ecosystem, and this study does a great job of doing that. So thank you Semrush, and that's all this week for the Snappy News.

Now, before we duly depart, we have one last little treat for you, and that's our follow of the week. And do we have a treat for you this week? We do.

Crystal Carter:

We do.

Mordy Oberstein:

Isn't every week>? Let's be honest.

Crystal Carter:

It's all a gift, you're welcome people. No, I'm kidding.

Mordy Oberstein:

Our gift this week from a data scientist at Moz, he's the doctor of SEO, Dr. Pete Meyers from Moz.

Crystal Carter:

Is there a doctor in the house? I think there is.

Mordy Oberstein:

There is now.

Crystal Carter:

Dr. Pete.

Mordy Oberstein:

Dr. Pete. He's amazing.

Crystal Carter:

He's so smart and so nice. I love his writing because he talks about some fantastic things around SERP features, around things that are happening, and around what's happening with Google algorithms and all sorts of things. But he always writes with such humility and such empathy to people who are trying to figure out what's happening. He had an article about featured snippets. He was like, "Featured snippets are down this much." And then the next week he was like, "They're back. What was that about?" And that was the first time I was like, "Yeah, okay, Dr. Pete. I'm with you on this."

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, there should be a button, like a sticker, "I'm with Dr. Pete."

Crystal Carter:

I'm with Dr. Pete. I'm not sure if he wants all of us with him. I'm sure that sometimes he'd like to just go places by himself and not have hoards of SEOs tagging along.

Mordy Oberstein:

Well, we are all following him now.

Crystal Carter:

We all follow him. Everyone should follow him. Also, follow him because he has some amazing cleaning tips. He's really into wipes.

Mordy Oberstein:

Remember his tweet about baby wipes? And it's true. Always use baby wipes to clean because they're great at cleaning everything.

Crystal Carter:

I did not know this. I did not see that one.

Mordy Oberstein:

Yeah, it's a good tip from Dr. Pete.

Crystal Carter:

I think I saw one about handheld vacuum cleaners, which like the handheld vacuum cleaner literally changed my life. It's literally a life-changing device. You heard it here first people.

Mordy Oberstein:

And also because he happens to be one of the most honest people in the SEO industry. When Dr. Pete gets something... We all get things wrong but Dr. Pete will say, "Yeah, in that study I did, that was a mistake," and he'll correct it. So you can trust that the data that you're looking at from Dr. Pete has been thoroughly analyzed, questioned, and if there's a problem with it, Dr. Pete will be the first one to point that out, which is very rare and unusual. It's a great trait.

Crystal Carter:

He's clever, he's kind, he's a good dude. And apparently his house is like clean AF. I've never been there, but from what I hear, he keeps it very clean.

Mordy Oberstein:

Runs a clean ship, huh?

Crystal Carter:

Clean ship.

Mordy Oberstein:

Like they do in the military, like you did in Hawaii, going back full circle. Anyway, Dr. Pete, you could find him on Twitter. We'll link to it in the show notes. But his Twitter handle is @dr, as in doctor, underscore, Pete, P-E-T-E. So, D-R underscore P-E-T-E, check it out on Twitter. Anyway, thank you for joining us on the SERPs Up Podcast. Are you going to miss us? Not to worry, we're back next week with an all new episode as we dive into Google Search Console. Is it the most important SEO tool?

Crystal Carter:

We'll find out.

Mordy Oberstein:

We'll find out. Look for, wherever you consume your podcast or on our SEO Learning hub at wix.com/SEO/learn. Looking to learn more about SEO? Check out all the great content and webinars and resources on the Wix SEO Learning Hub at you guessed it, wix.com/SEO/learn. Don't forget to give us a review on iTunes or a rating on Spotify. Until next time, peace, love, and SEO.